Plane Perverse

I realise this is only an idea under consideration. A ‘novel idea’.

To me though it is a perverse idea.

As I understand it, based on the RG article, the Government is going to hire a Boeing 737 for the purpose of ferrying aid supplies to Haiti. That, to me, is a great idea and something I encourage. So far no problem, great idea. But then comes the ‘novel’ idea. Basically, in order to help finance the costs of renting this plane the government is planning on selling seats on this plane so that people can fly down to Haiti. You won’t be on the ground long, just a couple of hours. Enough to see some of the devastation. The Haitian government will make a presentation to you, in thanks for your graceful contribution in the light of their misery. You could even ‘be seen to be helping the people of Haiti’. What a wonderful PR opportunity.

How wonderfully perverse. What a way to twist something genuinely good – helping the people of Haiti in their time of need – into something so horribly wrong.

The Haitian government has more important things to do than cater to the needs of some rich people interested in their own egotistic boost. Of course the Haitian government will make the presentation if they feel they have to in exchange for this help. So much for no strings attached, you focus on helping your people.

This idea, its basically the same idea as asking people to give money in order to purchase an ambulance, and in exchange for your contribution you get to come along on emergency calls and ‘be seen’ to help people in need. The paramedics could even give you a presentation in the midst of the car-wreck and injured people.

If they go ahead with this sick and twisted idea, I hope that the people who take it do publicise their ‘selfless’ act. That way we can all see how sick they really are and boycott their companies.

By all means help government finance this project (although if we can waste $800k on something we can do for a fraction of the cost, why should you?). But don’t pervert it. Sponsor medical personnel, engineers, Haitians living in Bermuda desperate to find their loved ones. Save the seats for loved ones of Haitians living in Bermuda to come here until Haiti is rebuilt. But this novel idea? Hell no.

It makes me sick. I’m ashamed that the Government is even entertaining it.

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144 thoughts on “Plane Perverse

  1. Jonathan,

    It makes you sick because you’ve got the wrong information. Why don’t you try and find out the correct information before commenting? You have Dr. Brown’s e-mail address, use it.

    LaVerne

  2. The quotes from Dr Brown seem to describe it quite clearly. Are you saying they are fabricated?

    Now wonder our tourism is such a mess, if he thinks this is a good and novel idea.

    The international media would have a field day with this.

  3. LaVerne, if this is wrong then I am sure the PLP website will refute it and that the PLP itself will demand a retraction by the RG, as well as sue for defamation. I will, of course, correct it at that time. I see that the PLP website has posted that Dr. Brown and his wife have donated $10,000 to this venture and are calling on others to do the same (http://plp.bm/node/2425). I imagine they will soon move to clarify this on the site similarly.

    Dr. Brown was quoted in the RG saying:

    “If you want to help the Government help Haiti, we are saying that for $10,000 you can purchase a seat on the plane and actually fly in on the plane to Port-au-Prince. You won’t be there for very long; probably less than three hours.

    “I thought that was a novel idea. We are considering it seriously. It may just be a way for a company, for example, to have a representative on the flight.

    “When they get there, there will be a presentation to the Haitian government and there are some companies that would like to exercise their own free and be seen to be helping the people of Haiti.”

    I have no reason to doubt that he said this, although I am sure he said more than what is reported. If not then the RG has given cause for a serious defamation case.

    Surely the Party, and Government at that, has the PLP or Government website to refute this comment. They should use it. What do we have a PRO or Government Press Officer for afterall?

    I repeat, if the article in the RG is wrong, then it is up to Government and/or the PLP to refute it. I am only expressing my reaction to what was quoted in the RG. If it is completely wrong, then that is indeed a welcome relief. Government and/or the PLP should be more pro-active in rebutting these things, otherwise I and all other citizens must assume it is accurate.

  4. A sparse blog entry?

    http://plp.bm/node/2425

    ” Submitted by PLP on 23 January 2010 – 1:48pm.

    During Premier Ewart Brown’s visit to Miami this week, American Airlines Senior VP Peter Dolara proposed a partnership between Bermuda and AA for a relief flight to Haiti. The flight will be filled with water, milk and medical supplies.

    Premier Brown and his wife, Wanda Brown, are personally donating the first $10,000 for the $60,000 relief flight. The Premier is calling on five companies or civic organizations to join him in making $10,000 donations to sponsor the flight”.

  5. The PLP entry is part of the official Government press release which in its entirety reads:

    Premier Dr. Brown today announced a partnership between Bermuda and American Airlines (AA) for a relief flight to Haiti.

    Dr. Brown said that he “and Mrs. Brown are donating the first $10,000 for the cost of the flight to Haiti.”

    In his one-day trip to Miami yesterday, Dr. Brown met with Senior VP Peter Dolara of AA. Mr. Dolara proposed that AA would fly a Boeing 737 to Haiti filled with water, milk and medical supplies. The food and supplies have already been collected and are stored in Miami. Bermuda would be credited with the donation if Bermuda pays $60,000 to AA for the flight.

    Dr. Brown said that he hoped that five companies or civic groups or churches or individuals would each pay $10,000 to make up the remaining cost. In return, each would get one seat on the aircraft for the return trip from Miami to Port-au-Prince.

    http://www.gov.bm/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_11886_311_1794_43/http%3B/ptpublisher.gov.bm%3B7087/publishedcontent/publish/gov__top_level__org__house_/government_news/premier_and_mrs__brown_make_donation_for_relief_flight_to_haiti_3.doc

    So, the last comment of the press release apparently confirms that the Government is in effect selling seats on the plane for people wishing ‘to be seen helping’ and looking forward to a presentation by the Haitian government, as mentioned in the RG. It does clarify that the idea is simply to pay for the plane, so there are only five seats for sale. In which case it is not the Bermuda Government that is actually behind the plane. Still, I say donate the money, but don’t waste peoples time on the ground in Haiti; if anyone should sit in these seats it is medical personnel and engineers. So far my original post stands, more or less.

  6. First all, there was no press release. Dr. Brown made a statement during another press conference. If you want to read it as the Government selling seats, so be it. I see nothing wrong with those people who donate going to Haiti to see first-hand the damage caused by the earthquake.

    Those remarks by Sam Strangeways are her intepretation as Dr. Brown spoke off the cuff.

    I think it is a novel idea. People are using all kinds of ideas to raise money for Haiti’s relief effort. You tell me what’s perverse about it. If Dr. Brown is able to raise the $60,000 we should be applauding him, not criticising him.

    Have you ever known the RG to refute anything they say about the PLP? Have you ever known Sam Strangeways to write a positive story about the PLP?

    What’s the difference between that and you wanting to go to Haiti and help out? Surely if you were a part of the Regiment contingent that goes there (if they go) your picture would be in the newspaper.

  7. Actually, there was a press release, which is copied and pasted above, complete with the link to it on the gov.bm site. The quotes by Dr. Brown in the RG are not in it, but from the press conference you refer to.

    There is such a thing as disaster tourism, where people pay money to travel to disaster zones. Once there they actively take part in recovery efforts, helping clear rubble, rebuild stuff, distribute aid. There is no profit in it, just a way to utilise people who are willing and able to assist. I don’t have a problem with that.

    I do applaud sending a plane full of aid to Haiti. I am in full support of that. I question why the seats should go to the people donating the money and not to people who could help out (medics for example, even Regiment officers to plan future operations there).

    To me it is similar to people stopping at a car crash to get a good look. Its macabre. Perverse even, in the sense of macabre voyuerism. To me personally it makes a mockery of charity, where you donate out of sincerity and in quiet. If you make a show of your generosity then people think you didn’t do it out of sincerity but out of a desire to appear sincere and get plaudits from the public. In other words it rings hollow. And that Haitian officials are expected to give a presentation to these donation VIPs seems wrong too; they should be busy helping and not giving VIP presentations.

    LaVerne, if I was to go to Haiti to help them out, presumably using my former experiences as a medic in post-hurricane operations in Cayman, I wouldn’t be doing it for the point of getting my name in the paper. I would be doing it because I have the potential to offer my experiences and skills, and because I am free to do so, currently being unemployed. I wouldn’t be doing it for any public applaud.

    I am content to leave the issue as one of good intentions that came out badly. I would hope that the individuals who have now been offered a seat on this plane are able to offer these seats instead to medics or Haitians living in Bermuda desperate to get home and help their loved ones.

  8. I have just realised I misread the original article. I had read the article to read that there would be a presentation by the Haitian government to the passengers. Having reread it I see that it actually states a presentation would be made to the Haitian Government, which is something rather different. So I personally retract that bit.

  9. Jonathan,

    In you zeal to discredit the Premier of Bermuda (again) you have gaffed. There was no press release. Sam Strangeways’ story is based on remarks that Dr. Brown made at a Press Conference on addressing the violence in our community. By the way, I see you ignored that.

    I’ve never heard of diaster tourism, but I’m willing to bet my bottom dollar that a photo will appear in the Royal Gazette some time next week of Fern Wade from Hands of Love Ministry taking donations for the Haiti Relief Fund, just as the Royal Gazette has carried photos of anyone who utters the word Haiti more than once.

    If you want to discuss Haiti, I will send you some articles tomorrow that you can post on your blog that I believe should be circulated globally.

    By the way Jonathan, the PLP, under the leadership of Dr. Brown, has become very sophisticated. As you see, we don’t wait for the RG to print our news.

  10. LaVerne, I have no zeal to discredit Dr. Brown. We disagree on a few things but I have no interest in discrediting him.

    I was pointing out that there was a press release concerning the plane (the link is in a post of mine above, it is to the gov.bm site). I acknowledge that Ms. Strangeway’s quotes came from the press conference that you referred to. I thought I made that clear in my previous post to you. I did not ignore it.

    As you know I am still drafting a piece on Haiti, the background to the disaster, that is the artificial bit to it. I would be happy to recieve those documents and see if I can include them.

    I am content to leave the issue as a good idea that was badly presented. I am also content to say that I reacted to the bad presentation of it. Fair enough.

  11. Jonathan,

    I don’t want to belabour the point, but how would you know that it was badly presented? You were not at the press conference. I’m sure the PLP’s posting was in reaction to the RG story. I’ve been at dozens of press conferences in my lifetime and I can tell you that those held by Dr. Brown are the most professional that I’ve experienced. Keep in mind that I’m not a rookie. I’ve been in the business for several years.

  12. LOL – we wouldn’t be labour supporters if we didn’t belabour points… Okay, bad pun, I know.

    Badly presented in the way it was presented publicly which allowed it to be open to misinterpretation. I still find it distasteful in some respects, but as said, I’m willing to drop it. It is basically a good idea and I understand the monies have been raised, which is welcome.

  13. An enjoyable little repartee between Ms Furbert, clearly speaking for the PLP, and Jonathan, but here is the confusion. How is a press release from the Premier’s Press Secretary, posted on the Government portal, inaccurate as is apparently the PLP’s posting in reaction to the RG story (which Ms Furbert says is false)? Who or what is to be believed? A press release clearly on behalf of the Premier, but denounced by Ms Furbert, the PLP posting based on the RG report, or the RG?
    Whatever is the truth, it seems very probable that for $10,000 one can have a photo op in Haiti with the Premier and his wife. Not clear how humanitarian that is, and surely it is better to use the money for medical supplies and food.

  14. Ms. Furbert rather than attacking Mr. Starling, the Royal Gazette, Sam Strangeways, the facts and then attempting to fight the difference between a press release and a statement at a press conference perhaps we could have some explanation how one can morally support selling the opportunity to visit Haiti and ogle the countless people injured and property destroyed under the guise of soliciting donations?

    To use one of Mr. Starling’s examples from BIAW (I believe it was you, correct me if I’m wrong) It would be like allowing someone to sponsor an ambulance and go along for the ride whenever there is an emergency call. Surely that is as morally repugnant to you as it is me?

  15. This is a photo opp pure and simple.
    Bermuda will buy food, and then pay $50K to charter a passenger jet to deliver it.
    It would make sense to give the same sum of money to a major relief agency (not Yele), which has an established supply chain and will be using cargo jets.
    More efficient.

  16. At the end of the day the people of Haiti benefit from this. I really do not care who gets a pic out of it or who is flashed on the news. All over the world people are in the papers and on the news for what they are doing for Haiti from Obama to the little kids packing up food boxes at school. I can see those on the plane after seeing for themselves how bad it is, putting up more money to help wouldn’t that be great? John that also is a good idea for those who donate to allow someone who can help in certain arias to take the seat. But as this seems to be a quickly made agreement and no one can come up with every good idea, instead of venting why not pass on that idea to the Premier? It may have been able to be put into use. Why politic the issue? This is very serious. Some people do want to be seen as helping Haiti as that would encourage others to help also. That is why they had over 100 stars participate in the Help For Haiti Telethon last night, because people seeing them take part were encouraged to play a part themselves. Influence does play a big part in charity. A lead by example type of deal. I seriously doubt the Premier meant it as some kind of weak advertisement deal.

  17. A few years back, I made a conscious decision not to run to the site of an accident if there were other people already on the scene. My extra body in the mix would be of no assistance and perhaps a hindrance. To just choose to look upon suffering, for its own sake, is not much of a sign of empathy.

    By civilians arriving at an airport that is the site of field hospital, people in agony and loss, triage and vital supply off-loading, how are these idle bodies justified.

    Will the Premier have his body guards.

    If the whole entourage even leaves the airport will they use a vitally needed vehicle.

    Any idle body on the plane takes of space for lifesaving supplies and seems to be a vain “Look where I was” story for Martha’s Vineyard.

  18. Hi Makai, yeah, the spam filter is rather random, it had one from you and one from Joe stuck in it when I logged on this morning.

    About the idea, well, I really do feel that it was a genuine attempt by Dr. Brown to help out. I don’t fault him for it. I think sending a plane full of aid down is a wonderful idea and you are right, at the end of the day the people of Haiti benefit and that is all to the good. I really don’t think that Dr. Brown understood how it could be perceived; how I and I reckon a good deal others did. As I said above it struck me as raising money for an ambulance and letting donors ride in it to visit emergency scenes; I would much rather the space was used for medical equipment and paramedics.

    Had it come across as ‘we are hiring this plane to ferry aid to Haiti. It costs $60k and we are asking if people could assist with that; it only takes five $10k donations from companies or organisations’ then no one would have had a problem. Had big donors privately asked if they could fly down with the aid, then that wouldn’t have been a problem. It was presenting it publicly as ‘donate $10k and you, too, can fly down’ that was going to get peoples backs up against the wall, because people are going to say ‘why not send people who can help on the ground or put more supplies on the plane’.

    I wasn’t making it a political thing, it was more of a ‘wtf, I can’t believe I just read that, shouldn’t we send medics instead of rich people’ thing.

    As such, I am content to leave it as a good idea, badly presented (in that it didn’t realise how it would come across to lots of people).

  19. Taken from the Press release posted on the Government website and referred to by Jonny:

    Bermuda would be credited with the donation if Bermuda pays $60,000 to AA for the flight.

    So the arrangement is not being paid for by Bermuda, namely the Government / taxpayers, but by Mr & Mrs Brown plus 5 others. By so doing they can declare they are Bermuda. This is nothing short of deceit and ego. If he had pledged the $60,000 on behalf of Bermuda, and used the 5 seats for emergency supplies or personnel, I would support the move. The novel suggestion is crass and cheap publicity seeking.

  20. @Lets…

    “Why not just send the whole amount to the Red Cross”?

    Exactly. And there’s the rub, and also why this whole thing turns into something more than what it should be – “helping people in need”.

    If the Government or private people want to help – great!

    But the good Doctor can’t do that – can he? No!

    You can bet your bottom $$ that there will be a photo in our favourite publication.

  21. bermudas humanitarian contribution would be better served with a financial contribution to the UN and working with local groups that do work in hati….mr rego etc

    All this other crap is just that …crap

  22. While alot of the NGOs (red cross, etc) do indeed do a lot of good work, there has been a tendency over the last decade to increasingly undermine the capacity of the Haitian government to actually function as a government, with aid being funneled to NGOs while the government is starved of assistance. This has been done partly under the fig leaf of concern about corruption, and partly because the government has different priorities than that of the IMF/World Bank, which has led to friction. Yele Haiti, while an NGO, is focused on helping Haitians help themselves rather than reinforcing dependency on foreigners.

    The UN mission MINUSTAH is seen by many Haitians as an occupying force, doing the work of US neo-imperialism by proxy, especially with the repression of Aristide’s Famni Lavalas party (which remains the most popular Party, even if outlawed).

    So it is a bit complicated on the ground, although under the circumstances all aid is appreciated.

    Again, I believe Dr. Brown is genuine and sincere in his wishes to help the people of Haiti. I do not question that. I just think the plan was not properly thought through as regards its presentation, leading to the criticisms that you see above.

  23. Some of you guys are just full of it plan in simple. If you had been paying attention you would have see that Bermudas has donated to the red cross and many other charitys that are in rote to Haiti. This is just another way of helping them. And besides that who are you to tell people how and who to donate their money to? Unless you are putting up 10 grand yourself you have no say in how they go about sending aid to Haiti. As was clearly stated Dr. Brown and his wife put up 10 grand and he asked if 5 more people/companies would put up 10 grand each to equal the 60 grand cost for the charter. Then as a good jester on their part they will put Bermudas name on it and away they go. (Kinda like putting someone else’s name on a gift you brought so they are credited with it as well) Its not like its coming out of the public purse. If anything we are paying for the products that will be set there. So if you can’t give credit where credit is due next topic please.

  24. Here’s a Haitian Foundation that I’ve been involved with for 20 years.

    http://www.haitianhealthfoundation.org

    One of the things that we’ve done since inception is help the Haitians to help themselves. For example, not only do we provide medical care, we train Haitians to provide medical care.

    Most of the problems with the current influx of aid is that in a year (or less), people will have forgotten Haiti, and they’ll still be in trouble. This is why contributing to long-term solutions like the Red Cross or Yele Haiti, or even Phil Rego’s ministry makes more sense than the “feel-good exercise” and needless self-promotion afforded by the latest offer.

    I would like to add that concerns about government corruption in Haiti are valid. You can ask those people in the rural mountain villages we have helped why bypassing Port-au-Prince is not always a bad idea. The last coup wasn’t that long ago (2004), and the poor were forgotten in the ensuing diplomatic furore around the capital. If it hadn’t been for the locals of Jérémie standing up to the warring factions to allow small plane relief flights into their area to supplement the clinic, they would have been forgotten by the outside world, and by their own supposed government.

    I think the promotion of the aid flight is unnecessarily gauche, particularly the way it was presented. Eructus has it right, why go if you can’t help directly? You’ll just be in the way.

    Even though I’m sure the premier meant well, the presentation was atypically clumsy for him.

  25. Makai,
    Your heart is in the right place, but in this instance you are missing the issue. In the same press conference $800,000 is being paid to lawyers, who will be paid at least $600 PER HOUR each, on a futile and non priority matter. Somehow I don’t see $600 per hour as worth the end product – there are plenty of Bermudians who could do this job at a fraction of the cost. On the other hand, Haiti has been devasted by a natural calamity. Working people are putting their hands in their pockets and donating hard earned cash – maybe not much but it means a lot to them – but because it is only small amounts they get no recognition, and many wouldn’t want it either. Many many people do great work annonymously. The cost of the plane is $60,000 or $1 for each person in Bermuda. I support the notion for the Government to pay that, or better still hold off the futile reform and donate the $800,000 to Haiti.
    Where the novel idea is crass is because the Browns obviously wish to flaunt their wealth for publicity.
    I don’t expect you, or Ms Furbert, to understand this, and will continue to display your adoration of the Premier, whatever he does.

  26. the public needs to tell dr brown to rethink the plan and use our money better by donating it to Yéle Haiti, n bermudian mr rego

    http://www.readyforanything.org/

    Bermuda does not need to get in the way by trying to get on the ground taking pictures. international press has slready stated the bottle necks @ de airports n docks so Y add to that?

  27. Jan 23rd, 2010 5:04pm

    ” By the way Jonathan, the PLP, under the leadership (leadersheep, my emphasis) of Dr. Brown, has become very sophisticated.

    As you see, we don’t wait for the RG to our news”.

    Yah gutt det girlfriend……..

    Everytime I pull up the PLP websight all I see is Dr. Brown and YOU waving your hand.

    But anyway……keep up the good work. I’m sure you’ll get a high profile job once the Mayor’s are gone.

    How much yah cousin paying you?

    Makai, nice hammer…………………………..

  28. black press, personally I’d be a little hesitant to contribute via Yele Haiti. While it may be on the up and up (apparently they’ve already replaced their accountants) it’s not clear how quickly funds will make it to the intended recipients (or how much will get absorbed in overhead on the way through).

  29. Makai you seem to have an “ends justify the means” attitude and by all means if it works it works but, you must understand where the rest of us are coming from.

    From what I can see the general idea is that this is like selling tickets to a car crash or for a ride on an ambulance. You wouldn’t support that now would you?

    Well this is no different. As a number of people have mentioned those who do end up flying to Haiti are more likely to just get in the way of those who are actually doing some good and may even use some of the much needed supplies for themselves!

    We cannot allow all morals to fly out the window whenever there is a crisis. Money is important but not at the expense of respect for the Hatian people. You would not ogle a murder victim laying bleeding on the ground, so why then can you justify what almost seems like disaster tourism?

  30. they replaced their accountants so they can stand up to the proper level of charity governance apparently…….giving to them vs another charity = same as any other charity

    they ALL dont give ALL the money to the people

    if the UN did its JOB poverty in hati and every other nations will not exits on the levels that it does now and there would be no need for these charities who may or may not be on the up n up, to even exits.

    Yéle Haitis performance is directly tied to the donators collectivly holding them accountable like all charities should b held accountable.

    they r offering better solutions to the hatian people based on the environmental conditions and their concepts do have merrit.

    I dont think wyclef will fscrew over his own people

  31. So the Premier of the country and his wife donate $10,000 to assist with sending a planeload of supplies to Haiti and all you can see is the opportunity for a photo op? Give me a break. I don’t want to take anything away from Mr. Rego or any of the other people who are donating to Haiti in the best way that they see fit, but every time Mr. Rego receives a donation there is a photo in the newspaper. What’s the difference?

    I guess if Dr. Brown decided to go there for a couple of weeks and donate his medical services, you would all be saying the same thing, he’s using it for a photo op. Why would he want his photo in the Royal Gazette or any other newspaper?

    Last evening Cablevision donated $45,000 to the Haitian relief effort and I can assure you that you will see the General Manager along with the head of the Salvation Army and the Red Cross in Bermuda and Mr. Rego’s picture in the newspaper. Would you say Mr. Terry Roberson made the donations for a photo op? Of course not.

    You should know that Dr. Brown and his donate to many causes privately. You all are some sick individuals!!

    By the way, the matter of the donation was not discussed at the same press conference as the municipalities matter.

    Do you mean to tell me every time I see Barack Obama in the newspaper he’s doing it for a photo op?

    I guess it makes you all kind of angry that Dr. Brown is donating some of his hard-earned money to a charity. Let’s see how many other doctors and business leaders in Bermuda are going to do the same thing.

    Robert Bryce, you need not be condescending to me or Mackai. You have no idea what I understand. If as you say, Mackai and I adore the Premier, than I say you despise him and you don’t even know why.

  32. Only ten percent of the money goes to the people government is foolish for prostituting current events.
    Haiti is a corrupt capitalist dictatorship of freemasons and voodoo slave drivers.

  33. What’s interesting here is the fact that most of your talking is based on your perception of words Dr. Brown said. If you are not connected to any part of the actions as a result of those words, (meaning you are not one of the donors and won’t be on the plane or anything like that) how do you know that what you are saying is the plan or will take place? I’m not directly involved but I did just finished talking with him and he by no means ment it like that. Now I know he can tell me anything but I don’t believe he would and I would much rather take his word then your assumptions,because he’s going of off more then just a statement. One things sure I wouldn’t want to see a plane with people who just want to see devastation for the experience. You don’t know who grabbed or will grab up those sets or what they plan to do with them. I don’t see to many people doing it for a shameful reason like that. There are a lot of better things that can come out of those seats and I believe that is what we are going to see. I believe the donors have the best interest at heart. Many connections can be made, and a personal knowledge of what help is needed can greatly benefit the people of Haiti. You can get far more from personal talks then hearing of the need through the Media. Two-three hours is not sufficient time for any medical professional to really be of any help, and that is the time slot they are working with. There are a lot more letters to work with in the alphabet then A&B so why limit ourselves to just those two. Is giving people the benefit of the doubt taboo to a lot of you guys?

    See what’s happening first before spending so much time and energy possibly being wrong. I’m looking for a lot of good to come out of this and if I’m wrong at the worst I would just have to shake my head at a few people. I’m really into Haiti right now and I know the road to recovery is more then just healing from the outcome of the quake, so my eyes are open to what’s going.

    I do not blindly follow anybody. It may seem that way to those who look to focus on any possible bad that could come out of anything that Dr. Brown does,but that is only because their mind is made up that he can do no good. So who really is blinded? At least I hear both sides weigh the odds and determine what I believe on my own. And maybe because I know him better then I know you its easier to take his word over yours. So as to the charter, guess we just have to wait and see.

  34. Nioe, it’s great to live in Bermuda right?

    Your last paragraph sums it up quite well with regard to your feelings.

    You’ve never been exposed too this whether crime or catastophic occurences.

    Carry on. And as Makai says….next topic please……………….

  35. Oh, Johnny..your spam filter excuse…………really good.

    It’s called moderation. Thats why we all are where we are today.

    Free speach is having an annonamous voice with a tv screen and comments off……………………and good lawyerly skills and a few cigars on hand.

    Sow? Reap…………………

  36. @ Makai,

    “Then as a good jester on their part they will put Bermudas name on it and away they go.”

    I know you probably did not mean the typo, but very apropos. 🙂

  37. LaVerne, you just got a big raise for those comments. As for Dr. Brown, at this stage of the game he would’nt know a scaple from scaplegoat……..

    One thing I can say in his defence is that he is always on call, answers the phone or has it patched through to 911.

    In fact last week I was at the Hospital yoo know..the King Ewart Mamorial 1st…………he was so busy running around telling all the patients and staff that he had to take care of the house and the people and that they could stay in their beds whilst the floor below was being demolished and they would not fall through the cracks…………what a speech/speach…………….

    But the kicker was when he asked the patients in the extended care unit if they wanted to donate $10,000 so they could fly too Haitti and see for themselves what destruction was really like………………Joe Sousa and Mary Simmons just layed back and said…………..”seen enough here, pull my support”………………………….

    Don’t worry LaVerne….your mentioned in the book. Your a star along with others……………

    I have a dream……………………….Damn Sir Geroge Summers…………….

  38. black press,

    they replaced their accountants so they can stand up to the proper level of charity governance apparently…….giving to them vs another charity = same as any other charity

    they ALL dont give ALL the money to the people

    Clearly you don’t know much about charities in general. You’re right that they all have expenses but the question is how much of the money actually makes it to the intended recipients and how much gets eaten up along the way.

    And you definitely haven’t done much in the way of research on this one.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0115102wyclef1.html?link=rssfeed

    Musician Wyclef Jean’s charitable foundation–now the recipient of many donations big and small in the wake of the Haiti earthquake–has repeatedly had its corporate status dissolved for failing to file required state disclosure reports, records show. As seen below, the Florida Division of Corporations has, on four separate occasions over the past five years, sanctioned the Yele Haiti Foundation …

    if the UN did its JOB poverty in hati and every other nations will not exits on the levels that it does now and there would be no need for these charities who may or may not be on the up n up, to even exits.

    Since when is that the UN’s job?

    Yéle Haitis performance is directly tied to the donators collectivly holding them accountable like all charities should b held accountable.

    In August 2009, the group filed overdue tax returns for 2005, 2006, and 2007, documents showing that Jean and fellow board member Jerry Duplessis paid themselves at least $410,000 for services provided to the foundation.

    I dont think wyclef will fscrew over his own people

    You might want to read this:- http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0114102wyclef1.html?link=rssfeed

    But, when all is said and done, I’d like the sort of income Wyclef’s charity is generating for him personally:-

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0119101wyclef1.html?link=rssfeed

  39. Makai,
    I don’t know who wrote your post timed at 4.44pm, but it was clearly not you. Not many spelling or grammar mistakes.
    Ms Furbert,
    Do not try and read my mind – where did I say I despise Dr Brown?
    Oh, and his name is Makai.

  40. “The Bryce is Right”…………………..

    Gota love Sir.Thomas Gates people…………..

    Oh the humanity………………is that light or stormy………

  41. Robert,

    You have got to be kidding me, so lmawtfo!!! Do you really believe that I care if I make a spelling or grammar mistake while posting on this blog. I am posting from my BB while at different places living my life. I heard it before that if you want to be taken seriously you have to make sure that you write things out right. But you want to know a secret? I do not care if you or whoever read my post take me serious or not. I speak the truth and put it down best I can given the circumstances I’m in at the time I write them. I save the professional writing for documents things going back and forth that have to be completely clear. As for this,take it how you see it. I am very serious, people who know me take me very serious and people I work with take me very serious. If you stick around long enough and take those blinders off YOU will take me very serious. Obviously you never heard me speak or you would never have made that stupid comment. No one will ever write for me. I’m got me down just fine. Don’t make excuses for not being able to keep up, its not a good look. Go ahead send my report card on this one. I’m going back to what I was doing before you interrupted me on some BS.

  42. Alright Makai lets break this down.

    The exact quote in question:

    “If you want to help the Government help Haiti, we are saying that for $10,000 you can purchase a seat on the plane and actually fly in on the plane to Port-au-Prince. You won’t be there for very long; probably less than three hours.”

    Now justify that. So far all you have given is a circular “Well you can’t assume everyone has bad intentions” argument which clearly refuses to acknowledge the fact that no one can do any good to anyone in Port Au Prince airport for 3 hours. In fact they would be more likely to get in the way than anything.

    There is absolutely no reason a private individual could want to go to Haiti for 3 hours except to ogle. You’ve admitted yourself there is little even a medical professional could do in this time. So I welcome you to give me one other reason you could possibly want to go there.

    “One things sure I wouldn’t want to see a plane with people who just want to see devastation for the experience. You don’t know who grabbed or will grab up those sets or what they plan to do with them. I don’t see to many people doing it for a shameful reason like that.”

    But this is exactly what it would be! There is a huge difference to offering the head of an aid organization a seat on the plain to oversee the work they are doing and saying that anyone who gives $10,000 can come along for the ride. Clearly you are confusing the two.

    @Rummy

    As always you have nothing but personal attacks.

    If you are one of those who stands in a circle staring and getting in the way of those who could be helping then it is you who deserves to be the one lying on the ground. And that’s exactly what this issue is about. People getting in the way for their own selfish curiosity.

  43. No, Noie let me break it down. I didn’t make it clear what people can do in three hours that can be of benefit to Haiti? Are you sure or do you just lake common since and the ability to understand what people are saying without much elaboration? Just in case its the later I will quote myself and elaborate more on it for you.

    ” I believe the donors have the best interest at heart. Many connections can be made, and a personal knowledge of what help is needed can greatly benefit the people of Haiti. You can get far more from personal talks then hearing of the need through the Media.”

    What I am saying that the people on the plane will have a chance to talk to the officials that they present the shimpment to. In doing so they can gain knowledge first hand as to what is needed and what they can do to assist the people in Haiti not only now but in the long run. They have the opatunity to make connections with people that can assist in the development of Haiti from that end. Three hours is plenty time to have a meaningful conversation to set about progress. Its all about getting the best out of all situations. This can be a great thing.

    Now you are free to look for all the wrong and not even consider possible good, but I don’t see how you can ever progress with eyes like that. Could the thought to do that have even come to your mind? I hope so otherwise you must be a sad sad case.

  44. Makai,
    So you agree with spending at least $600 per hour ($800,000 total minimum) on lawyers to produce a Report that Government, but not the peolpe, wants. You wouldn’t prefer that money to go to poor people whose lives have been devastated by a natural catastrophe. You agree and accept that this money is better used to support US lawyers, rather than people who have no homes, no food, no water, no family. You prefer this money is spent to keep lawyers safe in their large houses with Mercedes Benz, BMWs and Porches, while hundreds of thousands in Haiti have no homes, no electricity and grieve for their lost ones.
    Now we know your, and the PLP’s, priorities.

  45. Nioe, personal attacks? Get a life really. Your voice is very clear everywhere on the internet.

    All of your comments are self centered. It’s all about you. If thats personal, so be it.

    Others get tired of your diatrabe just like mine so move on. You can spin all you want………………….

    You don’t know me just like others deride Makai for his spelling.

    You tell em son……I’ll get back on why they challenge you like that. Confused or plantation owner………………….

  46. Robert,

    If that’s what you get out of what I just said, then I don’t think I can convince you otherwise. I spoke on the topic at hand. If you really want to speak to me on this with out an already made up mind, we shall speak. But as I rest my case on the topic I’m calling it a night. It takes to much to talk to you and right now I’m busy>

  47. Personally, I think the $10,000 for a seat on this plane that’s bound for glory-seeking would be better spent on a donation to http://www.haitianhealthfoundation.org/

    (FWIW, external audits have shown that 92¢ per $1 donated goes directly to aid programs, the highest efficiency rate among all charities)

    It would buy:

    Full support of TWO villages for a year (all care, infrastructure, food, etc)

    or

    Hire and train THREE full-time healthcare workers to administer to the needs of thousands of people living in remote villages for the next year

    or

    Support 20 at-risk pregnant mothers from undernourished children

    or

    Educate (complete with uniforms, supplies, etc) 90 children for a year

    or

    Feed 33 children for a year

    or

    Build 17 houses, enough to house 170 – 200 people PERMANENTLY (gee, think shelter might be needed after this kind of disaster?)

    And this is a well-established charity that continues to work in Haiti as it has for over twenty years. So when the glory-hounds have soothed their anguish at the suffering (usually after the accolades stop, in about a year), the foundation will continue, as it always has, actually caring for the people of Haiti, whom everyone else has forgotten.

    That’s where my money goes. And my time too, on occasion.

    I’d like to see my tax dollars equally well spent. But I’m thinking that’s unlikely…

  48. Makai you seem unable to differentiate between the head of a charity or a charity worker and a private individual. The former has a reason to go to Haiti the latter will only get in the way.

    I am not deliberately looking for the bad in people, I’m using a little bit of common sense. A disaster area is no place for “civilians”, aid workers yes but private individuals most certainly not. They would only get in the way and as you clearly stated, even a medical worker could do very little in three hours so what good could a wealthy accountant do?

    For most people $10,000 is a lot of money and they are highly unlikely to have another $10,000 lying around that they were going to sit on until they got to go and speak to some Hatians. One needs only to turn on the news to see the sheer magnitude of the disaster so your point about building relationships and going to see what needs to be done really is null and void. If there are seats available on the plane they should be filled with doctors and aid workers. Not someone who is simply going down to be nosy. If an aid organization is operating in Haiti then by all means give their upper management seats so they can see how best to use their organization’s resources.

    You saw fit to repeat:

    “What I am saying that the people on the plane will have a chance to talk to the officials that they present the shimpment to. In doing so they can gain knowledge first hand as to what is needed and what they can do to assist the people in Haiti not only now but in the long run. They have the opatunity to make connections with people that can assist in the development of Haiti from that end. Three hours is plenty time to have a meaningful conversation to set about progress. Its all about getting the best out of all situations. This can be a great thing.”

    And I will say it again. NO private individual is going to be of any use in the short run or the long run unless they have a few million dollars lying around that they insist on personally observing being put to use. It would make far more sense and be a far more efficient use of that money if they allow a well established aid organization with operations already ongoing in Haiti and which ALREADY KNOWS where they need further resources to handle their money. Too many cooks spoil the pot and this is no different when it comes to disaster relief. This idea that a private individual who donates $10,000 can be of any use to anyone in the short or long run by visiting Haiti for three hours is ridiculous and would be bordering on laughable if this weren’t such a serious situation.

    It is the height of arrogance to tell me that 6 Bermudians, after 3 hours visit, will know how to fix Haiti’s problems. Lets accept the fact that we’re a tiny blip on the map and concentrate on where we really can be useful: Fund raising.

    So in closing I’m going to reiterate the point I think you are missing:

    A private individual is of little use to anyone unless they are specifically trained medically or as a rescue worker or some other kind of aid worker and are headed to Haiti for weeks or months to assist. An aid organization on the other hand is a completely different thing and would benefit from being able to send someone to discuss operations with those on the ground. So again I’ll repeat, if there are seats available give them to aid agencies. Not nosy individuals.

  49. blank man i will review the links u posted and give an opinion if i feel the need

    i still stand by my comment that wyclef has no financial need to rip off his own people for money….and perhaps the people who run his charity have more to gain hence their being replaced

    hes a rich hip hop artist……. but all that aside

    yes the UN is responsible and has a mandate as a world body to manage resources in disasters of all sorts.

    for decades they have clearly not lived up to their duty as a body. If the hatians were white they would have recieeved help a long time ago with nation building their country

    as would have other poor countries around the world

  50. FWIW I was not suggesting medics fly down on the flight and fly back after three hours. I was suggesting they fly down and stay there to help out. If the Regiment want to send some people to reccie the place for a future overseas camp recovery effort, thats good too.

    At the end of the day I maintain it was a good idea for sending the aid plane; I believe it is a genuine and sincere gesture of aid. I also believe the aid is already part of a larger aid agency package, and we’re just facilitating this particular shipment.

    I just think it was unnecessary to mention that for $10k donors can fly with the plane. The backlash to such a statement should have been obvious. Even if it was part of the idea some things are better left unsaid.

  51. i still stand by my comment that wyclef has no financial need to rip off his own people for money….and perhaps the people who run his charity have more to gain hence their being replaced

    Funny, he’s the only celebrity that I’ve ever heard of who was paid to appear at his own benefit conference. (Details in the links provided.)

    yes the UN is responsible and has a mandate as a world body to manage resources in disasters of all sorts

    Which seems to be what they’re doing. But that’s not what you said:-

    if the UN did its JOB poverty in hati and every other nations will not exits on the levels that it does now and there would be no need for these charities

    which is very different from saying it’s their job to manage resources.

  52. Jon,

    I just think it was unnecessary to mention that for $10k donors can fly with the plane.

    How else are you going to get the voyeurs to come along?

    Even if it was part of the idea some things are better left unsaid.

    So disaster tourism is fine as long as we don’t tell anyone about it?

    Sorry mate, I know your first instinct is to act the apologist but this time you’ve got to simply admit that the whole thing is completely tasteless.

  53. Its amazing how EB has the great big brass swingers to turn a genuinely tragic story firstly into a glorious piece of self promotion (why not just make a quiet donation to the Red Cross?) and then a ghastly ill thought out farce of a collection of bourgeois gawpers in a 737.

    While the trip would have a very modest impact on the disaster it would be a wonderful addition to his “Statesman Photobook” now that the picture of him with Tiger Woods has been deleted.

    I am utterly ashamed for him and the seemingly intelligent people who blindly buy into his blinkered paranoia.

  54. black press: the UN has become a farce, unfortunately. They have little real power except to do whatever the Permanent members wish (except when China objects to something, then it becomes a stalemate).

    Big countries dictating how the world works. The US, the EU, and in its own way, China.

    Now if the IMF/World Bank came in and lopped off that debt that they helped swindle poor countries into, allowing the countries a chance to do something with their finances instead of chucking off a huge portion just to pay off the dang *interest*… well that’s unlikely.

    I don’t know if Haiti can recover. It’s had to deal with centuries of turmoil. We as individuals can do what we can for the here and now, but long term, it’s up to the nations to choose.

  55. Makai it’s amazing how when I confront you with logic you respond by ignoring it. If you honestly support your side then show me where I’m wrong.

  56. Nioe,

    Where is the logic in your post?
    Until you can tell me who the donors are and what their intentions for the seats are, your words have no credibility. You base your views on one thing and one thing only, and that is a statement. I am sorry but you need more then that to convince me. You have every right to believe what you believe as do I. I do not have to waste my time going back and forth with you about something that has not even happened yet. I don’t know about you but I value my time. So as I said, you guys are funny, I stand by my post……that is all.

  57. “What I am saying that the people on the plane will have a chance to talk to the officials that they present the shimpment to. In doing so they can gain knowledge first hand as to what is needed and what they can do to assist the people in Haiti not only now but in the long run. They have the opatunity to make connections with people that can assist in the development of Haiti from that end. Three hours is plenty time to have a meaningful conversation to set about progress. Its all about getting the best out of all situations. This can be a great thing.”

    Don’t you think the local aid workers have far more important things to do than kowtow to some johnny come lately who paid $10k to observe a living hell?

  58. The logic relating to the fact that a private individual can do absolutely nothing with 3 hours in Haiti.

    All you have said is that “We don’t know who the donors are” as a defense of basically selling these seats. At this point I think it’s clear to anyone with half a brain that your argument has no leg to stand on. You have presented a non-argument today and I am fully aware that I will never convince you that you are wrong because you can’t seem to understand the basic logic of the situation.

    Aid workers going to Haiti like the planeload of doctors who flew down recently = GOOD

    International aid organization management flying in to see where more resources need to be diverted to = GOOD

    6 wealthy Bermudians flying down to have a chat for 3 hours = BAD

    Regardless of how well meaning those 6 Bermudians may be the fact remains that they would most likely be more of a hindrance than a help and your assertion that it will help them figure out what Haiti needs in the long run is, as I’ve stated before, the epitome of arrogance. If the Red Cross, UN, Yele Haiti and the countless other organizations currently operating there can’t figure out what to do 6 private individuals have no hope of even coming close!

    At this point you seem blinded by the fact that it is Dr. Brown who has made this comment. Just as all that comes out of his mouth is not wrong, it is also not right. This is a clear violation of both common sense and moral principle and yet your only defense is that we don’t know who the donors are.

    The statement itself is clear. That for $10,000 I could fly down to Haiti for 3 hours. There is no way to misinterpret that statement.

    But, enough. If you have no wish to debate the issue then we will just let it lie. I can only hope that anyone reading this little exchange will not be so blinded to common sense.

  59. Nioe I tried to be nice but that does not work for you so let me say plainly,

    YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE YOU DON’T KNOW WHO YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. ALL YOU ARE DOING IS COMPLAINING ABOUT SIX RICH PEOPLE GOING TO HAITI WHERE THEY WILL BE OF NO HELP. AS I SAiD BEFORE YOU DON’T KNOW WHO WILL BE ON THE PLANE, SO WHAT DO YOU BASE YOUR JUDGEMENT ON? PLEASE SHUT UP ABOUT IT UNTiL MORE COMES TO LIGHT. I AM NOT DEFENDiNG SIX RICH PEOPLE GOING OVER THERE, I AM JUST STATING THE Possibility THAT THE SIX PEOPLE THAT GO JUST MAY BE A BENIFIT TO HAITI EVEN IN WAYS THAT YOU HAVE OUTLINED. I KNOW MY POINT. ALl YOU ARE DOING IS TALKING BS SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU HATE DR. BROWN AND WOULD NOT SUPPORT ANYTHING HE DOES. I WILL JUST WAIT TO SEE WHO IS ON THE PLANE. UNTIL THEN PLEASE DON’T TALK TO ME ABOUT IT AGAIN.

    BY THE WAY THERE ARE MANY tHAT SEE MY POINT. KEEP YOUR ONE SIDED MIND AT EASE. I’M DONE WITH YOU

  60. Makai man, relax; easy on the cap-lock there.

    Nioe and everyone else has to rely on the public statement, which they have quoted several times. In it Dr. Brown (and I’m paraphrasing here) says donate $10k and you can have a seat on the plane and go to Haiti for 2-3 hours. People are reacting to that statement. It may well be that people are happy to donate and decline the seats, and instead medics or some other people (like the Regiment, for doing recon) will go down instead. But the way it was phrased did make it sound like an advertisement for rich people willing to donate can come down as tourists, and that is what people reacted to.

    Just as you claim people are being one-sided and ‘hate Dr. Brown’ the flip-side of that is that they, too, can say you are being one-sided and are fanatical in your support of Dr. Brown (and as such blinded to any and all criticism, be it justified or not).

    Can you understand how the statement was perceived by people? Recognition of that, in tandem with defence of Dr. Brown, would help deflect such an accusation. If you are wanting people to consider your point of view you must do the same and try to understand where they are coming from too.

    At the end of the day, as I’ve said several times, I think it was phrased horribly and I oppose the idea of selling seats in the manner that it came out. I do however think it was a genuine and sincere gesture, but one which was bound to get a negative feedback from many (and not just those already opposed to Dr. Brown and the PLP), if for no other reason than how it came across.

  61. Whatever John,
    I’m done I can see myself getting nowhere fast with people on this blog yourself included. As I said I hear both sides weigh the odds and determine for myself what to believe. (Can’t be one sided like that) you guys on the other hand, take a statement and run with it. Good luck with that…..peace out!!!!!

  62. Makai if you are still reading I will simply leave you with this.

    What can anyone do with three hours?

    Other than that I shall simply apologize for whatever I have said that has made you so angry and we shall agree to disagree.

  63. @ Makai –

    Okay.

    I don’t think your comment is all that conducive to discussion, but I reckon its borne out of frustration, which is fair enough.

    I think people are also trying to understand your side of it, and are trying to explain to you what they take from the Premier’s statement. I think it is unfair to portray them as being one-sided; they just disagree with your position or you haven’t convinced them of your position. And there is nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day this incident is small potatoes and there are more important topics to dwell on.

  64. All I am saying is, as we are all in agreement that six people going to Haiti just to look as a bad situation is distasteful disrespectful shameful and a waste of time, we should look beyond that thought and see who actually does get on the plane. We can all have the greatest of ideas as to who should be on the plane but as we have no real control over who does, why argue about it? Let’s see what happens then we will have a solid topic to debate on, if there is even a need to debate. If people can’t understand that point, what sense does it make for me to post on this blog?

  65. Isn’t the bigger issue that whomever the passengers might be, for the outrageous sum of $10,000 each, that they’ll only be there for two to three hours?

    What on earth can anyone get done in that time, other than look around and get a picture taken? It wouldn’t matter who flew down, the time frame alone makes it futile and wasteful. Even if made with the best of intentions, it’s a boondoggle.

    There are much better uses for the money, as I’ve outlined before.

  66. Mackai,

    What is really amazing, but then again, not so amazing, is that these people have ignored one thing, that is that the plane is taking supplies to Haiti. Those people who have donated have done so that the supplies can be flown to Haiti. They are obsessed with Dr. Brown that they cannot see the forest for the trees. For all we know, the plane may have already left without any passengers, including Dr. Brown who is traveling someonewhere else presently.

    As I understand the $60,000 has been raised and other than Dr. Brown and his wife we have no idea who the donors are.

    I’m sure you see as I’ve seen the people who post on this blog are like piranhas, just waiting to attack anybody who supports the PLP. They try and give the impresssion that is just Dr. Brown that they hate, but when you look at it, it’s the PLP and its supporters that they can’t abide. They love Jonathan when he criticises the PLP and than they attack him whenever he supports the Party. Come October, they’ll be attacking the next leader, whoever it is.

    Moreover, they cannot stand the fact that you, a “little black boy” dare challenge them on anything. That’s why they hate Dr. Brown so much. He’s challenged the status quo and is still standing tall. And on top of that, he donated $10,000 to Haiti.

  67. I think one big factor is there are two different approaches to arguing/discussing being exhibited, and this leads to a ratcheting up of friction. Both sides get the impression the other is not listening to their argument. Makai and you keep going along the line that people are criticising it just because its Dr. Brown. The others keep explaining why they think selling seats (as it was put by Dr. Brown) is a bad idea, but the aid itself is okay.

    Sure, people who were predisposed to oppose Dr. Brown were going to see this as a reinforcement of their views, which in turn reinforces the views of those who think people are just critical of Dr. Brown. So both sides are talking past each other and neither seems willing to accept the validity of the others argument. And this leads to frustration and barbs, which just drag the conversation down.

    Whether or not Dr. Brown meant it as ‘selling seats’ I hope that you are able to see how that perception could come from what was said (in the quotes from a press conference and later Press Releases). As I’ve said, to me, I think Dr. Brown was well-intentioned, but I don’t think anyone involved in the PR bit of it realised how badly it could come across the way it was phrased.

  68. @ Robert not if LV or the pawns that she has have anything to do with it thats just wishful thinking.
    But you guys are funny

  69. “I may have to go on the plane myself”

    “Because of the lack of organisation on the ground”

    “To make sure that the goods are offloaded and get into the hands of the right people”.

    Senator Marc Bean…………………………..

    Read those quotes a few times and put them in perspective.

    I get the jist of what he is saying but my Lord, no wonder were all confoooozed……………………jingus…………….

  70. LaVerne,

    I can see that as my last post John and others still find an argument. That clearly shows me that it is not my words that they go after but my stance as a PLP member and Dr. Brown supporter. Does it really make sense to post with these guys? And I really hope “Ex Progressive Mind” was not referring to me in his statement talking of your “pawns”, because I am not here to play childish little games with these people. You and I have many conversations as we do with many members and supporters of the party, and because we are collective in many of our views they try to label us. It was funny but now it is just sad.

  71. Ms. Furbert this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it was proposed by Dr. Brown! And it has even less to do with the race or relative size of any poster on this blog.

    As of yet neither you nor Makai has taken the time to explain how anyone can be of use for 3 hours i.e. how it would benefit Haiti.

    We’ve heard how $10,000 being donated is a good thing. No one disagrees.

    We’ve heard how a plane load of aid is a good thing. No one disagrees.

    We’ve heard that we don’t know who the donaters are. No one disagrees. (more importantly its not relevant.)

    What we haven’t heard is any justification for 6 Bermudians to fly down to Haiti.

    Nowhere have I attacked Dr. Brown although I’m sure you will extrapolate my comments as such. I have attacked the principle behind this idea. Unfortunately it seems you are unable to distinguish the idea from the man.

    @JStarling

    I have to disagree with you. I have presented a case against every point only to be met with screams of “You just hate Dr. Brown”. There is no missing the debate here, only dodging the question.

    Such is the political landscape of Bermuda today. Regardless of your political affiliation.

  72. “You and I have many conversations as we do with many members and supporters of the party, and because we are collective in many of our views they try to label us. It was funny but now it is just sad.”

    So what exactly is the difference between that and the PLP stalwarts labelling any opposition as, racists, haters, sycophants, lynch mob, bigots and so on and so forth? That is sad.

    If you can’t handle debate with pov’s that do not align with yours then i have a simple solution…DON’T DEBATE. Stick to the written press where no one can immediately rebut or refute your claims. That’s what Laverne does…

    But if you do decide to debate the issues do not follow her lead by ignoring teh argument and then crying that. “you lot don’t agree with me because I am black, because I support the PLP, because, because, because…

    What I find amazing is that no one is debating how that another $800k of OUR money is going to even more consultants. Or why does the Govt feel the need to actually abolish the Corps to begin with and swell up Govt even further?

    Makai please provide some points as to why Govt needs to abolish the corps? What good will it to do and exactly who will it benefit?

  73. Nioe,

    I was at the press conference. Dr. Brown never said anything about 6 Bermudians flying down to Haiti. So, there is nothing to justify.

    So you’ve attacked the principal of making a donation to help a nation that has been devastated by an earthquake?

  74. Well if you read the RG Senator Mark Bean pretty much sums it up and as he is spear heading the move his words have more creditably then this blog.

  75. Oh come on John….my post is being overlapped……………

    It’s how it is said………………..with regards to statements and press releases……………jingus man………………….

    Vat about us honkeys? Little balck boys get all the say and an ole gee steal gutta wait in line………………….Bawahahaaa

  76. What I find amazing is that no one is debating how that another $800k of OUR money is going to even more consultants. Or why does the Govt feel the need to actually abolish the Corps to begin with and swell up Govt even further?

    Makai please provide some points as to why Govt needs to abolish the corps? What good will it to do and exactly who will it benefit?

  77. I not going to go there with you 9ps as I will only give my opinion and that will cause a wave of post from you and others claiming that I am pulling the race card and ya da ya da. All I will say is that I do not really agree with spending 800,000 on consultants but I am in full agreement with getting rid of the corps.

  78. “I not going to go there with you 9ps as I will only give my opinion and that will cause a wave of post from you and others claiming that I am pulling the race card and ya da ya da. All I will say is that I do not really agree with spending 800,000 on consultants but I am in full agreement with getting rid of the corps.”

    Well then don’t complain that people aren’t listening to your pov when you are not willing to give it.

    It is like the PLP complaining that the RG doesn’t look for more views from its members and then when it does the say “no comment” or is asked to leave the room.

  79. “Well then don’t complain that people aren’t listening to your pov when you are not willing to give it.”

    I’m not complaining mate. I’m just to intelligent to fall into the same trap twice. I tried to give my genuine opinion and you all stepped, spun and flipped my words to weakly justify your argument. Not my cup of tea.

  80. I haven’t spun anything…

    Say what you mean and if you let others determine your scope of free speech…then they have won..

    So please give me your honest opinion as to why you believe that the Corps need to be abolished and absorbed by Govt?

    Thanks…

  81. LF

    $60k divided by $10k = 6.
    A reasonable extrapolation of why people are coming up with the number 6, whether EB explicited said it or not.

  82. Makai & Laverne

    Why even bother trying to discuss this?

    I came back to the blog to contribute, but after this ridiculous accusatory blog by Jonathan, i realize that he has a similar agenda as the others.

    I will not be a part of it. And i will not spend time arguing with him or others about this crap.

  83. Ken,

    That is the same conclusion that I have come up with, I won’t be wasting anymore of my time with this. I feel you 100%.

  84. “I’m just to intelligent to fall into the same trap twice. ”

    Sorry to point this out. The irony is just too rich to ignore.

  85. “I tried to give my genuine opinion and you all stepped, spun and flipped my words to weakly justify your argument.”

    Makai I believe you did give your honest opinion, however, other posters felt it could/should be rebutted. No one has questioned the humanitarian act, just the utility of a three hour touchdown to sight see and glad hand.

    “I won’t be wasting anymore of my time with this. I feel you 100%.”

    This over-sensitivity persecution thing is getting a little old.

  86. “Why even bother trying to discuss this?”

    Verne wasn’t discussing. She was inventing racial slurs like the “little black boy” one that she referred to.

  87. Three thoughts:

    1. If anyone wants PLP supporters to contribute to conversation on here, you need to stop being so accusatory and personal. Not everyone agrees with you, and jumping up and down and yelling a lot doesn’t really help.

    2. For the PLP supporters who do come on here, I hope that you’re here to contribute and not just to repeat the party line. We’re all more than capable of reading the PLP blog if we want disgustingly dishonest, deliberately provocative poorly written spin. If you have a point of view that’s great, but if you’re just here to support every single decision of the infallible Dr. Brown you’re probably too biased to bother. Doesn’t stop some people though.

    3. On the issue itself, John Travolta is on the front page of CNN having flown his plane down there with aid. Dr. Brown has done many things to get his name and face in the paper that have far worse causes then this. I’d seriously let it go. There’s a reason his supporters can dismiss legitimate claims so easily, when frivolous stuff like this becomes the most commented on item in ages. For those that actually do want their voices heard and the status quo affected, you need to realise that there are certain people, even on here, whose only goal in life is to discredit you before your message can get out. Don’t give them ammunition.

  88. Come on Makai,

    I know you don’t give up that easy mate. So what if people don’t agree with you. That’s the whole point of democratic politics.

    What is sticking your fingers in your ears and going “lalalalalalla; I can’t hear you, so you can’t be real” going to achieve?

    Personally I don’t have any objections to companies/individuals that want to contribute to the Haiti cause in any way shape or form. It was an argument based on nothing. Anyone is free to spend their $$$ how they want, no matter how perceive them or their actions.

    And personally I am not too sure where I stand on the abolishment of the Corps. This is because of the lack of information and rationale as to why they should be “absorbed” by Govt. Thus I need the pros and cons to be able to pass judgment.

    I am not going to simply agree to something simply because it was a Govt idea/initiative. Politicians the world over have proven themselves time and time again to be self-absorbed individuals with the ulitimate aim of gaining and retaining power for themselves at the expense of the general public.

    So start me off my enlightenment on this particular issue by providing me with what you perceive to be the ulitmate rationale and benefit from this proposed process. I am being serious. Stop letting people shut down your voice because they don’t agree with you. All that does is get us nowhere fast.

    The Big Conversation is meant for different views to be heard and an understanding of the merits of each other’s arguments and feelings on a certain subject (i.e. race). This approach should be extended to all facets of and issues facing the Bermudian community.

    Thanks…

  89. Ms. Furbert the quote in question:

    “If you want to help the Government help Haiti, we are saying that for $10,000 you can purchase a seat on the plane and actually fly in on the plane to Port-au-Prince. You won’t be there for very long; probably less than three hours.”

    Then if we apply the fact that he’s looking for $60,000 a little math will take us to the number 6. I can only assume you were being deliberately dense because quite clearly he said just that.

    As for your claim that I seem to take issue with donating $10,000 dollars to Haiti its almost not worth dealing with.. I can’t even figure out how you arrived at such a conclusion. Not agreeing that people should fly down to ogle the destruction and loss of life is a completely different story from disagreeing with the donations itself. Again I can only assume you are being deliberately dense.

    As for the posters who seem to have this persecution complex. Not everyone is going to agree with you. Just because we don’t doesn’t mean we are spinning or accusing. I have constantly presented a logical case and yet constantly it has been ignored in favour of accusations that I’m unfairly anti-brown or that I am misrepresenting arguments. If you disagree with me show me through logic. Your faux-taking the high road approach is nothing but avoiding the issue and as such I can only assume it is because even you realize that your argument has no leg to stand on.

  90. @ Rummy – I don’t sit behind a computer all day to clear the spam filter; relax.

    @ Ken – I have made several comments on this thread; I believe you have only read the initial one, the article that I wrote starting all this. I advise you to read them. However, I’ll summarise them below.

    I reacted to the article in the RG. I have pointed out several times how, the way it was phrased, it gives a very bad impression of Dr. Brown’s idea (ie. selling seats). As many other posters have said above, the idea of sending aid is a good idea, and no one is opposed to it, although some have suggested how we could have used that $60k in a better way for Haiti. It was only the idea of ‘selling seats’ that people found distasteful. It may be that something else was meant (although that hasn’t been clarified by anyone that I’ve read, including Senator Bean’s comments in the RG today).

    I am willing to leave it as a good idea badly presented. My critique then is simply that more care should be taken in PR statements, as that would avoid misunderstandings like this one.

    At the end of the day it IS a minor thing and I personally was done with the issue by Saturday evening; I’ve only posted on it since as a result of continuing misunderstandings of my position since. I don’t have the capacity to lock off threads, and while I could delete the whole thread, that idea is contrary to my ideals and I don’t intend to do it. I would suggest that readers focus on new topics; I think we’ve pretty much exhausted any discussion on this topic and it seems evident we’re not going to progress any further on mutual understanding here.

  91. Then, give up on the Spam………..and install “MRE”…………..

    Nothing in my comments that need filtering. Plus, Spam cost more here than damn corned beef…………………………

  92. Boo hoo.

    Makai is joining Verne and Ken who threaten to quit, quit, and then come back to do it all again over and over.

    This site is where people come to argue, bitch and moan. You guys are as inflexible as the other side. You act as though you’re conceding points all over the place but no-one will reciprocate. Give me a break. Either jump in and stay, or go for good.

  93. Nioe

    ” I have constantly presented a logical case”. What should have written is “in my opinion I have constantly presented a logical case”. I don’t see where you case is at all logical. The issue at hand is making donations to Haiti, but you and others, including Jonathan, have turned it all around to concentrate on an incorrect statement attributed to the Premier.

    So what if he offered six seats or one hundred seats. The fact of the matter is that he made a donation to Haiti. Now let’s talk about who on this site has made a donation, including Jonathan. I will admit that I have not as yet.

    As I said before, you all are obsessed with Dr. Brown. Just admit it and move on. That’s all you can talk about.

  94. “As I said before, you all are obsessed with Dr. Brown.”

    I thought it was you who was obsessed with your cousin.

  95. “The issue at hand is making donations to Haiti, but you and others, including Jonathan, have turned it all around to concentrate on an incorrect statement attributed to the Premier.”

    Mrs. Furbert no one is disputing the necessity of aid for Haiti so please stop trying to play that angle. The issue is buying a seat on a plane for $10k to go and see the destruction in Haiti.

    “we are saying that for $10,000 you can purchase a seat on the plane and actually fly in on the plane to Port-au-Prince.”

    This is a crass and insensitive remark.

  96. The only real issue I have with this is the comment attributed to Dr Brown:

    “When they get there, there will be a presentation to the Haitian government and there are some companies that would like to exercise their own free will and be seen to be helping the people of Haiti.”

    To be seen to be helping? To me that sounds like saying, for the low price of $10,000 you can look like you give a crap… come on down.

    Basically it isn’t what he meant or how good his intentions were but HOW he said it and how it has been perceived by many (and I’ll tell you for a fact there were quite a few “companies” offended by this idea and what it said to them). No one is saying this isn’t a humanitarian effort or even that much good can come of it but that one must always be cognizant of what you say.

  97. Let’s all not forget its Dr. Brown and his wife’s own money he is spending … and they should be commended for making a sizable contribution … the line between public and private has been blurred here as this is now a public/private venture but surely we can all see that they have a right to give their money as they see fit … in the end does it really matter why someone gives a donation as long as the people in need actually get help?

    If I could afford it I would give $10,000 and request that additional aid goods be stacked in my seat and offer the return seat to someone in need of medical attention to fly back to the island to receive such attention at my expense.

    PS: I have donated to several charities in relation to the crisis in Haiti … and no I didn’t need anyone’s approval to do so (well except my spouse’s … LOL!)

  98. The $10,000 Dr & Mrs Brown allegedly “donated to Haiti” is actually being donated to American Airlines for the rental of their jet. Why American wouldn’t provide the jet free of charge as their humanitarian donation is beyond me. To pay $60,000 to AA for a short hop from Miami to Haiti is a bit much, don’t you think?! There must be something more going on here….

  99. The irony of all this just is such. The PLP have their websight, Progressive Minds had theirs et al ..

    Now it’s just lingure, troll and throw their toys down when confronted with reality. Most all comments made recently on the verbage used and it’s presentation.

    I don’t beleive a word LaVerne says except that she did not as of yet contribute to any Haiti Fund. Are you authorised to m ake such statements Ms Furbert? Are you speaking on behalf of the PLP? Or are you speaking on your own behalf. Um cunfoozed……………

    Don’t worry. 10th October will be here sooner than you think and Nostrarummy is never wrong……………

    You know what they say about ‘follow the yellow brick road’……………………

    MLK climbed the mountain. Others want to tunnel through it and take the easy route.

    The past four years of our history will go down as the most racial divisive era. The perpetrators know whom they are and glory in rewards that they see or never attain for want of forgiveness of those that ask it or having been offered refused to extend more than a hand.

    Gotta run…….Baggin some household goods for Haiti. Old shoes, socks, anything…………..just doing my little bit for my fellow man……

  100. “The past four years of our history will go down as the most racial divisive era. ”

    No they won’t Rummy. You can’t be more racially divisive than slavery and segregation.

    Bermuda was making significant progress though. But now we’ve taken some steps backwards for cheap politics in the past decade.

  101. truth, to be clear, cheap politics on this island (and indeed many places in the world) have occurred for much more than the last ten years. It’s just how it’s been presented really… and who protested…

  102. alsys,

    Since the earthquake I’ve received hundreds of press releases for companies from all over the world who want to be seen helping Haiti. What do you mean “how he said it”? You didn’t hear him say it, you read what Sam Strangeways said he said.

    Name some companies that are offended.

    Now the donation is “alleged”. You all are too funny!!!!

  103. Ms Furbert, again with that phrase “to be seen”. I personally would prefer to simply help (as I even with my meagre capabilities have to the best of my ability). To be seen sounds horrid. At least to me. Again, I’m sure that’s not what he meant but it is what is attributed to him. If it isn’t what he said, why hasn’t he asked for a retraction?

    Ask around Ms. Furbert. I won’t do your work for you. Nor will I post names of companies on a public blogsite so that you or others can use that as ammunition. Not saying you would but it’s always a possibility…

  104. Also, it’s one thing to release a press release saying that you hvae done good things and offered aid to these poor people, it’s quite another to “advertize” the concept of offering seats to people (no matter the end effect) to have a gander at widespread destruction. I mean, as if those officals in Haiti have nothing better to do then wait around for a presentation. Imagine if everyone that has helped thus far would have done the same. Have the presentation here in proxy or something.

  105. The Truth, I am sure you can read between lines. I know history just as well as you and others. My comments were not in relation to Slavery and it’s ugly period.

    The last four years with regards to usage of words whether in the House or at press conferances, spoken or implied.

    Please don’t re-write my words nor present them in another sphere.

    Have a great day.

  106. “Please don’t re-write my words nor present them in another sphere.”

    I didn’t rewrite them, I quoted them. I don’t think you intended it that way, but it reads as it reads and I hear that often.

    I think what people mean is that we’re going backwards, but you can’t say the past four years are the most divisive racial era.

  107. Oh yes I can “Truth”.

    Show, name a Government Minister or Premier/s that has made statements like Ewart Brown has. All the racial slurs and things like…’don’t make me cross this isle and slap yoo up side yah chups et al……………..

    John Swan was notorious for calling people house n…..and Dr. Stubbs a white peice of crap but we just kept him on board…………………..

    Your spinning my words again. You want the “truth”….wait twenty years or less and all the money is gone and familiar faces are no longer domicile here.

    I feel sorry for the grass root people that brought us to where we are only to be taken away by the greedy pay back kids from the 60-70s……………..

    REality is a bitch for those at the end of a knife or belt.

  108. Ms Furbert

    ” I have constantly presented a logical case”. What should have written is “in my opinion I have constantly presented a logical case”. I don’t see where you case is at all logical.

    Then show me where it isn’t! So far all you have given me is assertions. Proof please! Point, Example, Explain, Link. Those are the four steps of writing an argument as I’m sure you’re aware. Now can we please have steps 2 and 3?

    “The issue at hand is making donations to Haiti, but you and others, including Jonathan, have turned it all around to concentrate on an incorrect statement attributed to the Premier.”

    No that is not the issue at hand at all! I have donated what money I can, Dr. Brown has made his own considerably larger donation. No one is contesting those facts and that’s not what this issue is about at all. I commend the donation. I however strongly disagree with this opportunity to buy a seat on the plane.

    Once again you claim that the statement is incorrectly attributed and yet it is confirmed on the PLP’s own website and I have yet to see a request for a retraction anywhere…

    “So what if he offered six seats or one hundred seats. The fact of the matter is that he made a donation to Haiti.”

    This isn’t true at all. The matter at hand is this issue of “selling” plane seats. No one is disagreeing that he’s made a fantastic donation.

    “As I said before, you all are obsessed with Dr. Brown. Just admit it and move on. That’s all you can talk about.”

    Oh the irony..

    As these are all comments on a blog post relating to a statement made by Dr. Brown what exactly were you expecting people to be talking about here? But, please try to notice the difference between attacking the man and attacking the idea.

  109. alsys,

    I copied and pasted your name to make sure that I wanted get it wrong. So, you mean to tell me that you’ve been talking to CEO’s of companies who have told you that they’re unhappy with Dr. Brown’s outreach to them? You must be pretty high up on the totem pole with either ABIC or BIBA to know that kind of information.

    So you’re saying that Fern Wade is “horrid” as she made sure that she was seen in today’s newspaper. And how about Terry Roberson from Cablevision? And do you think those doctors and other health professionals who allowed themselves “to be seen are horrid”.

    Come on alsys, which channel do you watch at night. I know you must read something other than the Royal Gazette.

    P.S. I hope I spelt your “name” correctly,

  110. I’m going to repost a statement I made earlier, and those will be my last words on this topic. Think and post what you will about my motives for not continuing on with it. I just shake my head and walk away.

    Well if you read the RG Senator Mark Bean pretty much sums it up and as he is spear heading the move his words have more creditably then this blog.

    Peace

  111. By the way, alsys, when you have some time on your hand, check out how many times you have been called in to offer your input on this blog. You’re certainly not a regular.

  112. Ah, Ms. Furbert, so only people that are what you refer to as high up can have conversations with the movers and shakers, as you will, on this island? Sorry to disabuse you of your opinion, I’m a mere peon. I just happen to listen to people instead of tell them what their opinion is or should be. It’s amazing how well that goes across… being open-minded and all.

    I’m sure I don’t have to re-explain but I will anyway. “To be seen” as a phrase in the english language usually means without substance. As in to be seen to be doing something as opposed to the actual of doing something. Again, it’s not what is meant but what is said. Semantics may be insignificant to you but empires have been toppled based on words.

    Not sure why you asked what channel I watch at night and then ask whether I read anything but the RG in the next sentence, as if that has anything to do with the other. But okay, I watch quite a bit of Dora at night until the lil one falls asleep and then tv usually goes off. I do dvr vsb and zbm but may not watch for days. Personally I prefer to get my information from many sources, both in support and in opposition to what I think to be true. I like that kernels of truth can be found in both, as in no one is usually completely wrong or right. It really just depends on where you choose to stand. Balance, as it were.

    By the by, yes, thank you for spelling my name right. I do remember others admonishing you for that on other threads. Me, personally, meh. It’s just a pseudonym and a sparsely cloaked one. Christ, just about everyone knows what my real name is. Especially cause I am not shy about unveiling myself every couple of months, lol. That and the various blogsites I participate on have my name on them. Honestly, I really just like this word, lol.

    As to your last comment, I’m not sure what you mean. Do people often get “called in” to comment on here? I can’t imagine why as the only real regular on a blog is the owner/contributer. By definition, the rest of us are just the peanut gallery. And if you mean that my opinion is not any more valid that anyone else because I wasn’t invited or something, wow. Didn’t realize this wasn’t a free world. Hey, I’ll go back to my normal lurking if I’m stepping into your space. Pardon me 🙂 Honestly, cool beans. Have at it.

    But anyhoo, back to the topic, humanitarian acts should not be something that involves quid pro quo… and if you are selling seats on a plane to go have a gander and to be seen as IF you are doing something… well, that’s pretty quid pro quo to me. IMO. Feel free to disagree. As to your examples, hey more power to them for doing something and getting recognition. As opposed to SELLING seats… One is here, like what I said before and the other is gawking. If you aren’t going to actually do something, you shouldn’t go. Simple.

  113. I have an idea how you can all agree on this subject, because I think most rational people would look at the selling of seats to go watch the aftermath of a disaster as pretty distasteful.
    Lets pretend that the suggestion was made instead by Michael Dunkley. Laverne would certainly then agree that the idea is cringeworthy as would all the others on here who have pointed out that displeasure with it has nothing to do with who said it.

    There you go. Everyone happy now?

  114. Ms. Furbert,

    Just as a matter of interest, I have heard of no less than 6 different execs say the writing is on the wall here and they are preparing to leave on their own terms before things get worse. 2 affect family members directly, but lucky for them the companies want to take them with.

    You can keep your head in the sand or spreading FUD, but it still doesn’t change what is really happening on this island.

    As for the Haiti trip, regardless of the “noble” intentions, there are still better, more effective and less sensationalised ways to go about it.

    Have a nice day.

  115. [i]”So, you mean to tell me that you’ve been talking to CEO’s of companies who have told you that they’re unhappy with Dr. Brown’s outreach to them? You must be pretty high up on the totem pole with either ABIC or BIBA to know that kind of information.” LaVerne Furbert [/i]

    As small as Bermuda is, it is not difficult or unheard of to encounter many of these CEO’s without having to be “high up on the totem pole”. They have opinions and thoughts like all of us and are happy to discuss them even.

  116. On the CEO front – I notice that some big players are meeting with government around the work permit terms…if they over-rule the idiotic 6-yr limit will that be paraded as an example of the PLP supporting international business and steering the ship through difficult times?

    If only someone could have told them at the time it was a bad idea. Oh.

  117. From the Premier’s Facebook page:

    “Folks: Thanks for your comments. This wonderful plane idea came from AA. They are sending the flights regardless of our decision. This is a great opportunity to transport thousands of pounds of food and supplies without all the red tape and cargo charges. The regiment may go later when the time is better. Believe me, the Haitians will appreciate our assistance.”

    So if AA are/were sending the supply plane irregardless of Bermuda footing the $60k bill, shouldn’t the funds be directed to Haiti (and not AA) instead?

  118. Might keep the AA coming here at perhaps a lower flight rate? Might be wishfull thinking though.

    CDF (formally Ex-progressive mind)

  119. 32n64w

    You should know better than to ask straightforward and obvious questions. Shame on you.

    It confuses the PLP and some of it’s supporters.

  120. Mike,

    You’re right you know the PLP and some of its supporters can’t answer straightforward and obvious questions. We’re such an inane bunch of people. Not smart like you all who post on BIAW. Now, that’s where we find the real brains of Bermuda.

    By the way, I understand that an anonymous businessman made the donation that insured that the AA-Bermuda Government flight to Haiti WILL happen. I know the Premier is ecstatic over the fact that Bermudians responded to the offer by American Airlines to fly a planeload of supplies into Port of Spain if Bermuda would pay $60,000 for the plane.

    On another note, Smoking Gun was totally wrong when he said the BDOT pays AA money annually. The fact is that the Bermuda Government has a Minimum Revenue Guarantee in place for the Miami flight but has never had to pay a dime on it! So much for his “knowledge of the facts”.

    Now we can put this topic to bed.

    Alsys,

    I really would like to meet you sometime. I would also like to know what “Alsys” symbolises.

  121. Lol, actually, Ms. Furbert, you’ve met me a couple of times. Anytime you wish to email me on matters (I find that is how it is the easiest to contact me especially lately) please have a look at Bermuda Jewel. I answer that email account on a regular 🙂

    But if you’re wondering as to my “name”… honestly, it was allsys originally. Something I said as a kid often. Yeah, I know it’s not english but it made sense to me, ie, all things = alsys.

    As to other point, you’re missing the point, as it were. Like Nioe and many others have said, it’s not the act itself but how it is presented.

  122. Ms Furbert

    My final remark on this subject you will be pleased to know…

    The PLP has some good people in it…and there are some good Ministers too; yes – I did say that.

    Alsys has the answer.

  123. Mike, you’re right once again. The PLP has some good people in it and there are some good Ministers too.”

    I’m still waiting for answers from Alsys. She keeps telling me me I’ve met her, but I can’t recall every meeting anyone named Alsys. Maybe she tell me how “it” should have been presented. Is she into pr?

    It’s nice to know “Smoking Gun” is paying attention. Have I met him a couple of times also, like I’ve met Alsys?

  124. LaVerne, people are allowed psuedonyms if they want to use them. Alsys has already directed you as to how you can contact her personally, and if you follow the information she has given you her identity is hardly a secret. And what does it matter who she is? It is the argument you should focus on and not the arguer. Afterall, no one here is hounding ‘ken’ for his identity.

    For someone so opposed to this thread I do wonder why you keep bringing peoples attention back to it.

  125. Ms Furbert, she’s Bermudian… (and if I’m not mistaken a “real” one at that, as some members of the PLP have put such things) you can’t have her deported

    Just for the record, you’ve also met me – though I think I’ll keep where/when to myself for now. No no no, nothing bad nothing bad, just that as a guest worker one can never be too careful! In addition, I regularly speak to several CEOs who have said what others have said they said – and I’m a nobody, it’s not really all that hard. Furthermore, what’s with the obsession with CEOs anyway? Your continued harping on about that particular position suggests a complete lack of clue as to how the corporate governance and management structures work at any well-run company.

    By the way, is it necessary to include a snarky, innuendo filled, generally strawman argument “by the way” section on virtually every post? If you have something to say, say it. Don’t lob grenades as an afterthought

  126. Ms Furbert, honestly, had I presented this concept it would quite frankly have not been the same concept in the slightest. (And no, I’m not in PR… way too unimaginative for that.) I’d have announced that we were partnering with AA but wanted donations. All (!) those that donated could help to pay for the price of the flight and supplies along with any extra funds being donated to charities I had researched. Mainly because it is of most chartiable organizations opinion that foodstuff et al help in short term but there are other ways to use cash, to help restart the economy or to put in an infrastructure that could stand up to disasters like this… (see Ren’s post very high above).

    All those that donated above a certain level would get that lovely picture in the paper (that you keep harping about) and we could do a presentation in proxy here. Put people’s names on a plaque which can be taken down. Admittedly, I don’t have logistics fleshed out but then, I, unlike the premier’s men, don’t get paid for PR. The seats going down could be filled with people who are planning on staying to help or find family (do you even know how many Haitian people here still don’t know where some of their family are and are travelling by any means necessary there?) and flights back could be filled or not filled with those needing to go to Miami or Bermuda, for whatever reason.

  127. Hi All,

    @Ms. Furbert

    Why do you constantly try to degrade people even your own? Is this how you get support by telling people that they are dumb or that ‘hey they think your dumb so listen to me’? Does that really work?

    CDF

    PS I to have met LV in different places but I know she would not remeber me as she seemed like she was having a bad day every time I met her.

  128. Well look at it this way….it could’nt have been a bad hair day.

    Well let me go. Gonna see if I can get a bid in on the new horse track at Elbow Beach. Then again, I don’t have that much ‘horse power’ in/under my hood.

    The world is falling down around our feet. Every country is experiencing turmoil, internal conflict, divide and some more than others.

    You have 60 odd thousand people with so much heritage and good will for 400 years and they can’t even come together to unite and fight for good governance. Yes there have been transgressions on certain parties and yes we had what others had with regard to slavery and racism but we have come so far and further than most of our sister nations. “Nations”? Yah damn right.

    Sit back and think about the isolation and the ways we have grown and empowered our own to support such a beautifull place 700 miles at sea.

    Our ancestors, all of them are turning in their graves as we attack each other verbally and physically and mentally.

    We can do it if only we planned for the future yet learn to live your day.

    I see it everyday. It’s all about me, my time, my space my ‘me first’.

    People made it and the majority by just hard work, saving and being gracious to each other regardless.

    So much too say but sometimes ones thoughts cannot be explained to those that care only about “Me”.

    A great day too all and remember….only you can prevent……………………………………………………………

  129. Gotta love the “RG” online….Bawahaha….

    “Crimes against the person have soared”….

    Above it a photo of a young girl with arms raised and a pigeon in flight………………

    The irony………………………………..

    I need a rum……………………………….

    ‘well, is it a bird, plane…………….’ it’s all relevent…….

    Now back to regular broadcasting…..

  130. Dear HHF Supporter,

    Amidst the tireless planning and relief work that Haitian Health Foundation employees and volunteers are providing to the thousands of people fleeing Port-au-Prince, we are reminded that we also continue our mission of nearly 30 years to the people who were already living in our area prior to the earthquake. Among HHF’s food and nutrition, education, housing, and other programs for the people of Jérémie and its surrounding 100+ villages, HHF provides prenatal programs and emergency evacuations to pregnant mothers in the far reaches of the Grand’Anse.

    At the time of the earthquake, we were just a few days into a week-long visit by the award-winning PBS program NOW, led by documentarian [url=http://cts.vresp.com/c/?HaitianHealthFoundat/74f9aa4160/3dd24f3a45/fb356c9a79]Mary Olive Smith[/url] and crew. Although the earthquake cut short their shooting schedule, amazingly they have already produced a final piece—called Saving Haiti’s Mothers—that will air on PBS’s NOW program this Friday, January 29, at 8:30 pm in many markets. (The actual air time varies city by city, so click [url=http://cts.vresp.com/c/?HaitianHealthFoundat/74f9aa4160/3dd24f3a45/d83c20d9e2]here[/url] to determine the scheduled time in your city.)

    I hope you will take the time to view this documentary to observe the work that you are helping to support. Scores of pregnant women have come from Port-au-Prince—and already we’ve had reports of some of them giving birth in Jérémie upon their arrival! This is just one of the programs that HHF is proudly gearing up in order to assist the thousands of people who are being added to our catchment area for the long term.

    Thank you for your support of this vital maternal and infant health program—and all of HHF’s programs for the people of the Grand’Anse. And please keep our neighbors in Haiti in your thoughts and prayers.

    Jeremiah J. Lowney, Jr., DDS, MPH

    Founder and President
    Haitian Health Foundation

  131. As the next junior scrote on the taxi rank of junior scrotes we have the honour of sending Senator Thaao Dill to get in the way of aid workers and Haitians on behalf of Dr Browns selfless charity gift.

    Be prepared for endless hours of drivel about how its changed him as a person and the humbling experience of witnessing poverty at first hand.

    Be proud, Bermuda.

  132. A Teacher born in Haiti who now works in Bermuda went home to help his people he was there for over a week, he has neen posting about it daily. He is such a strong man and helped thousands with money raised by Sandys Middle school. He returned to Bermuda yesterday. Guess how he got here? The AA aid charter from Bermuda, the same one Dr. Brown arranged. Since this blog had so much concern about how the plan would afdfect Haiti I just thought you would like to know about it. Here is a part o f his last post of his jurney home to help his people.

    I woke up friday morning and because I was stuck I traffic, hopped out the car and jumped on the back of a bike. I arrived at 845am for a Bermudian Charter American Airlines flight that brought 60K lbs of medical supplies and over 60 doctors and nurses and relief workers to Haiti. With a US passport from the front to me being on the tarmac in front of the plane was approximately 12mins. 12mins! In what world can you get 2 the airport and boarding a plane going internationally in 12mins. I was filled with Joy to see Senator Thao Dill’s face! Haiti is my homeland but Bermuda is where my new found friends and family are. Bermuda represents a peace and Beauty that may never ever grace Haiti again. In MIA I went 2 see my Dad, step-mom, and surprise my sister. They were so happy to see me. My Dad expressed his thanks 4 what I had done for his home Village. It was the 1st time my Dad said he was proud of anything I had done in my life. This was not a life changing experience. We use that term so loosely. It was an opportunity to see the best of people and the worst. It was an opportunity to learn the power of prayer, the power of faith. It was an opportunity to learn an educational lesson like none before. I can guarantee I will waste again. I can guarantee I will take things 4 granted again. I am the same person I was last week. Perhaps traumatized.

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