Comment Moderation Is Back On

Honestly, I do not know what is so hard about the concept of engaging in constructive discussion. For various reasons I’ve had to switch comment moderation back on. I don’t like putting comment moderation on as I find it slows down the flow of conversation, and I genuinely encourage free-flowing discourse; I don’t even mind if it veers wildly off topic from the original post as long as people are engaging in genuine constructive and interesting conversation.

I am hoping that comment moderation will only be on for a short period of time and allow people to reflect on what they hope to achieve in their comments. If they are interested in genuinely understanding and engagin with people and different thoughts, thats great and I hope to encourage that. If they wish to simply sling mud, make personal attacks and generally derail threads, no thankyou, and there are other sites were you can do that. Alternatively, its not exactly hard to set up a blog, although it can be hard to sustain it. Please, feel free to make your own site and do what you will on that. Its not hard, and no one can interfere with your actions whatever they are (well, within reason I guess).

I feel I need to underline that I am not intending to censor freedom of thought, political opinion or anything like that. There are many many people who strongly disagree with my politics and I have not, nor do I intend to, censor them. I much prefer to disagree with them and have a conversation with them in public. I hope they continue to post here.

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387 thoughts on “Comment Moderation Is Back On

  1. This week in politics was devastating with PLP recession deepening under Reagonomics starve the economy. Raising the BHC rents demands the need for a Socialist Party. Or better a socialist dictator because the people are to oppressed to represent themselves. Johnny are you afraid or what?

  2. With the BHC rents issue, it just goes to show you that the plp could care less about poor Bermudians. They would rather spend OUR money on elitist paw-tees! $75 grand for the Washington paw-tee (for what?) and who knows how much for the upcoming Love Fest! When the chips are down the plp usually make it worse as a result of their shortsighted, knee-jerk, elitist decisions. Without any THOUGHT, consultation or transparency! When is everyone gonna see that and kick these self-serving jokers where it hurts most…? A BHC rent strike may be apropos… it’s time for the People to STAND UP and be heard!

  3. On the subject of the Love Fest, just how many tourists does the it attract? And how much advertising does the island get out of it? After all, they’ve just pulled the plug on the Triathlon, which apparently brings 600 tourists plus the runners (and their entourage?) to the island as well as generating several pages of coverage in a journal that sells 100,000 copies.

    Bad trade off and just further proof that our Tourism Minister doesn’t know anything about tourism.

  4. Educated Pigs:

    Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, but to refer to a ‘PLP recession’ is ludicrous. The recession, or, rather, depression, is a world-wide phenomena resulting from structural problems within global capitalism. With the size of our economy and political capital, it is simply ridiculous to believe Bermuda or the PLP at that is responsible of could have significantly affected its evolution, beyond initiating wholescale democratic socialist reforms with the hope of igniting world revolution, but thats completely unlikely. The PLP could though, and should, start implementing such basics as unemployment insurance (as has been mooted recently in the media).

    On the other end, yeah, it may well be time for a socialist party of Bermuda. This blogs primary focus is to assist with developing such socialist consciousness in Bermuda. Don’t agree with the socialist dictator idea though, the idea should be to learn from the nightmarish failures of 20th Century Socialism in order to build a bottom-up democratic socialism for the 21st Century. Its important to help people liberate themselves; if they can be ‘liberated’ by another, a ‘socialist dictator’ they can similarly be oppressed again. But if they can liberate themselves, they cannot so easily be oppressed again. A Socialist Party of Bermuda should aim to guide the way towards popular emancipation through presenting an alternative to the status quo and bankrupt capitalist programmes, and work to build popular consciousness and self-management in neighbourhood and workers councils.

  5. Starman & Blankman:

    I think you are being shortsighted in your criticism of the tourism initiatives and networking in the US. While I agree that existing tourist strategies that are working should be supported and expanded (like the sporting events) I do think that it is important to investigate new areas, such as the Music Festival and the Love Fest. They may not be perfect, but I do think that over time they have the potential to bolster our tourism product. Their limited successes so far should be seen more as investments in the future. Highly successful events that occur annually today often went years of being small-scale and relatively insignificant, but through a process of ‘learning by doing’ and incremental to exponetial growth, they are now successful. The tourism initiatives may be looked at in a similar vein.

    As for the events in the US, I think they are valauble networking events, building linkages with US politicians and entrepeuners, especially relevant with a new US political administration. I may not agree with all of this, and the exact implementation, but realistically, without global socialist revolution in the immediate period, these are wise investments for the protection of Bermudian interests.

    Having said thay, it is important that in addition to these actions the Government should also seek to expand and strengthen social services, such as education, healthcare, housing and perhaps even foodstuffs in order to balance out and protect against charges of elitism. That would be, at a minimum, a wise strategy at a time like this, especially with events gathering pace globally, re Iceland, Greece, and potentially the UK and France which are now facing strike waves (I understand a Russian movement is in the offing shortly as well, and demos are being organised throughout Eastern Europe too).

  6. Jonny,

    If I thought that the tourism initiatives and “networking events” were productive I’d be the first to cheer them on. Instead they seem to be all about bling and photo ops for the usual suspects.

    [As an aside, the Audacity Ball was really a benefit for injured US military personnel – all we did was kick in $75,000 – while it let our politicians make a few warm and fuzzy statements in the Bermuda press, reality is that the balls that count are the ones that are so far off the radar screen you really don’t hear of them.

    But in reality, you see very few real Washington power brokers at the official balls. They are mostly at the private parties. In all the years I have been doing this, I don’t actually recall seeing anyone I know at an [official] inaugural ball.”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/14/still-thinking-about-a-glitzy-ball-think-again/%5D

    Back on topic – we had one event in the form of the Triathlon that already brought 600 tourists plus athletes to the island and generated several pages of free advertising in a fairly widely read magazine – that’s the sort of thing you can’t buy and it’s the sort of event that has the potential to continue growing. If nothing else it’s predictable and ongoing.

    Instead it gets dumped for something flashier. Who knows, maybe it will turn into something big down the road but right now we have a tourism industry that’s hurting big time and a tourism department that just cancelled a couple of thousand bed nights (not to mention restaurant meals, taxis, and so forth).

  7. “While I agree that existing tourist strategies that are working should be supported and expanded (like the sporting events) I do think that it is important to investigate new areas, such as the Music Festival and the Love Fest.”

    I agree with you, to a point. These things SHOULD be explored. The problem is, they seem to be being explored at the expense of established strategies, like the triathlon.

    The rest of your post? Spot on.

  8. The PLP could though, and should, start implementing such basics as unemployment insurance (as has been mooted recently in the media).

    This gets raised every once in a while (although I haven’t heard much since the PLP were elected). But if you think this through you’ll always run into the $64,000 question – how are you going to pay for it (the same holds true for any other aspect of the social safety net that you might want to see introduced or expanded by the way). While international companies are our biggest tax payers and can’t vote (which makes them a tempting target for any politician) they can also leave the island whenever they want. We’re already seeing companies leave and watching those that stay outsourcing jobs to other domiciles (even local companies are doing the latter). Anything that increases the cost of doing business in Bermuda can only accelerate that trend. [I know for a fact that Paula Cox hadn’t even finished delivering the last budget speech before people were picking up calculators to determine how many jobs they’d have to move off island to compensate for the increase in payroll tax.]

    And don’t forget that exempt companies have an undertaking that, should the island introduce corporate income tax, they will be exempt until 2016 (by the way the closer we get without an extension the more nervous companies get) so you can’t impose even a diminimous profits tax on IB to help fund anything (not that they’d stay here if you did).

  9. reform this system……1 way or tha other

    as bermudians grow hungery frm the effects of the global financial white collar thefts….combined with the “let them eat cake” mentality of the former black panther socalist plp who have sold out the workers, shown via the rent increase @ bhc,

    growth of dis content and sufferin is the only way the brain dead people will grow some balls n ovaries and MAKE reforms happen.

  10. So is an attempted (failed attempt by the way) 15% of contract value bribe to a senior Government official so you can get a contract your idea of reform? How about we discuss your proposed $3 million contract under EEZ (EEZ had a total budget of $10m(?) and you wanted 1/3 of it)? How about we discuss the fact that you offered (read: attempted to bribe) the senior Government official 15% of the $3 million if he pushed it through for you and it being roundly rejected strangely coincided with you speaking out here against the Government complaining that the average person is getting shafted by this Government? Maybe if you presented your proposal at the price it was really worth you may have secured the contract you were after. Maybe if you hadn’t attempted to bribe the senior Government official you may have still had the opportunity at Government contracts.

  11. To whom are you addressing your remarks, Guilden? As far as the Prem’s latest so-called Tourism Promotions are concerned — the Music Festival & Love Fest — we must examine the ‘cost per legitimate visitor’ who is attracted to the Island for these events (not business travelers). That cost is difficult to estimate as our gumbymint is so secretive with regard to these costs, and this info for other Islands is hard to find (Guilden?). But lets low ball the total bill for these two Bermuda events at, I don’t know, $3 million? A reasonable cost per visitor/b in promotional dollars spent to attract visitors to these events should be about $50, so one would need 60,000 visitors to break even! But, guessing again, Bermuda might expect say 1500 visitors to attend both events — which works out to be $2000 each! Even if 3,000 attended it would still cost us $1000 per visitor. Way too much! Anyway, they end up to be exclusive plp events to entertain mostly locals and score brownie points for the Prem.

    IMO, the Island needs to get back to using tried and true traditional media to target our big East Coast Gateway City markets, and forget about the extremely expensive fringe markets. I have heard that Brown wants to turn our Island into a playground for wealthy, elite African Americans, but that market is too small to be useful. Problem is that brown, being a doctor, knows nothing about advertising and marketing, yet he thinks that he does. His ego gets in the way every time.

  12. I’ll look into it – I think its possible with an upgrade or something. I’m still working out what this site can do to be honest. Been wanting to get some pictures on here… I’ll ask around.

    And I thought it was clear Guilden was directing his comments towards Son of Obatala.

  13. Oh, okay… but how does Guilden know all this about SoO…?! He must have some serious plp inside contact. What do you have to say SoO about Guilden’s accusations…?

  14. Starman,

    Let me make my intentions clear, I have no intention or desire to expose who SoO is. My desire is to see the improvement of my country, I will be the first to admit that the PLP has not done many thing that many expected them to do and that is highly disappointing. However, I think it is highly hypocritical of someone like SoO to throw out completely false accusations about what opportunities he has had denied by this government. His ascertians simply are not true.

  15. Why in the world would you make a comment like that Guilden? You make it now that you are in the know and means nothing too me except taht your a voice that stands alone unless confronted.

    Your really cool. I never thought you had this much power as a foriegn source.

  16. Guilden,

    While I don’t agree with anything that SoO has written and don’t want to get into a debate with him, I will say that the PLP has followed through with many of its campaign promises since 1998 including, but not limited to the following.

    Single seat constituencies to enable fair voting constituencies for the first time!

    Fast ferries to aid traffic congestion!
    Increased tourism arrivals numbers!
    Decreased airfares allowing easier travel to Bermuda!
    Removal of death tax/inheritance tax on primary homestead!
    Implementation of smoke ban in public places!
    Increased pension benefits for seniors!
    Increased doctor’s visits for HIP clients!
    Increased prescription drug allowance for HIP clients!
    Elimination of vehicle licensing fee for seniors!
    Establishment of African Heritage Diaspora trail!
    Establishment of North Hamilton Economic Empowerment zone!
    Implementation of GPS software to aid the transportation industry!
    Establishment of the Bermuda Race Relations Initiative to discuss race in Bermuda
    Construction of the Sylvia Richardson care Facility, and the Rockaway Seniors Facility!
    Increased an on-line TCD to aid in licensing and registration!
    Implemented geared to income housing for BHC Clients!
    Introduced further education awards for mature students and couples, in addition to increasing further education awards across the board!
    Pledged millions of dollars for cricket and football to aid youth development!
    Enacted bladed weapons legislation to combat violent crime
    Constructed the reverse osmosis plant to aid in water usage!
    Opened the Bermuda Recycling plant for Tin, Aluminum, and Glass!
    Introduced the Environmental Awards Program!
    Allowed competition in the telecommunications industry allowing long distance rates to decrease!
    Gave war vets an increase in benefits and for some the benefits they never got!
    Free Bus rides for Bermuda Regiment Solders!
    Free Tuition for Bermuda College students!
    Introduced child care benefits for those who qualify

    As far as the Small Business Development Corporation (SBDC) is concerned, about 30 men and women stood on the stage at the Berkeley Institute during the opening of the Party’s Delegates’ COnference in 2008 attesting to the help they had received from the SBDC.

    Can you list some to the things that you feel that Government should have done but has not done?

    LaVerne Furbert

  17. Laverne get a life. You have already put these same things up before. Did you get a raise since you have been so quiet? Does this not get hopeless? Why the suden surge of comments? Has your voice been released from Government coffers?

    Your silence is golden. Why not start with what John Smith did in 1654.?

    I fel a change comming.

  18. Can you list some to the things that you feel that Government should have done but has not done?

    Help real working class “son of the soil” Bermudians

    – Education reform… and I mean reform, not just changing the guy in charge of it all every few months.
    – Really truly working on the drugs/gangs/violence problems, I list them together because root causes are likely similar. Stop doing yet another study on the “young black male” and start helping him to break the cycle
    – Stop hiding government’s dealings from the public. “Governing in the Sunshine” or something like that wasn’t it?
    – Set up a social safety net for the lean times. Bermuda has had an extended boom with an amazing resource here in IB, and all the government has done is repeatedly see how far they can push them an oh, borrow the jet every once in a while. Unbelievable amounts of money flowed into government and instead of using it to create and fun social programs it went to a little faith-based tourism here, a gala ball there, a looooooove festival over there, a Mets promotion, and so on and so on – dribs and drabs one may argue, but a dripping faucet can empty your water tank
    – Act like you care and don’t hold the people that elected YOU to represent THEM in contempt

    Off the top of my head

    The only thing the PLP of today has in common with the PLP of the 1960’s is the name

  19. This is a PLP recession. If Paula cox had brains like her father she could have increased government spending like her father started Berkeley school pushing Bermuda forward while America was in a post 9-11 recession. i think she wants Bermuda to fail to overthrow Brown. Brown is really a weak lame duck that doesn’t understand state economics. Also we could have sold Bermud status for $100000 a pop to all work permit holders and this may have reduced the contraction. Burch and the BHC are corrupt real estate is devaluing at 30% while he raises the rents 10%. Bermuda needs a socialist dictator to put these politicans on trial for crimes against humanity. Guilty charge sentence…life in prison.

  20. *blink blink*

    I’m not sure you know what most of those words mean.

    Paula had a chance to challenge, and probably win against, Dr. Brown a few months back. She didn’t. Now she’s responsible for the recession in the states and is using it to overthrow him?
    Dr. Brown is a lame duck? Huh? According to Wiki, a “lame duck” politician is: …an elected official who is approaching the end of his or her tenure, and especially an official whose successor has already been elected.

    The status can be due to

    * having lost a re-election bid
    * choosing not to seek another term at the expiration of the current term
    * a term limit which keeps the official from running for that particular office again
    * the abolishment of the office, which must nonetheless be served out until the end of the official’s term.[1]

    How does that apply to Dr. Brown?

    Where is this “Selling status for a hundred grand” thing coming from? Was that EVER in the works?

    As for the last sentence?

    Wow. Just wow.

    “Crimes against humanity”? A socialist dictator? Are you serious? When has a dictator EVER been a preferred method over a duly elected person?

    That post is… just… wow.

  21. Guilden,

    Have u eva heard of de phrase …loud strong n wrong b4? Thats exactly wa u r as far as attempting to connect my name and my experiences with this governments so called hand up social programs, to whatever u are referring to.
    I dont have a clue wa u r referring to as far as ya bribe posts….my plan didnt ask 4 nowhere near 3million….anyways u got de wrong guy. And i never bribed anyone how de hell can a poor person bribe anyone…lol
    Im curious to know what false accusation ive made especially since i havent gone into any specific details.
    Id like for you to prove my allegations false. How do you know they are false?!!! Just on the news tonight theres another case of corruption…so whatever man. I have my 60 pages of proof…..perhaps I should do a “son of the soil” and publically spill tha beans like he did!

    SO it dont matta wa u believe or dont believe.

    ID like to remind u that u dont know me…nor any of my various political battles or experiences and to be frank…u commin off like a JR lavern furbert now by attempting downplay how the plp playing field is not level and acessable to all on an equal level with no regard of what social class or educationl background one comes from……like the founding fathers of the PLP and its greatest leaders planned.

    People like u guilden, are tha first ones to come slitherin with an appology after they find out they were wrong about something after being so fuckin sure they were correct. Or perhaps u the type with no spine who will not even ackknowledge they were wrong…no matter.

    just like this elvis character…i see where u comming from… and will ignore you like ive ignored him.

    Eventually the voices of thoese who are not being able to access this so called bermudian dream will drown out the people who have ulterior motives in attempting to silence people in this community who are brave enough to confront this government demanding accountability.

    I have heard people on talk radio confront this lavern furbert with various issues that go on in this country…that she claims dont happen, or has no knowledge on but yet, when its been suggested to her that she “investigate” these things…she consistantly is silent, on any research on thoese issues n instead tries to downplay stuff and tries to make people out to be crackpots all inorder to save the reputaion of her precious party who have become sellouts to the people.

    Old game new players. “the PLP is out UBPING the UBP “…..jullian hall…. b4 he was paid off with gettin his lawyer status back from his new found plp pals…hes sold out now as well.

    Thoese 30 men n women were mainly from the construction division of small business…a division that offers a different level of service than other non construction applicants get. Thats discrimination!!
    and now since theres no more building (cause of bad economy) they aint gonna make any money either.

    Bermuda will go into a depression because we are following what the usa did in tha 1930s. they cut government spending on capital projects…thus cuttin jobs…thus feeding into the resession to make it into a depression…..obama isnt cuttin spending on capital projects that will create jobs.

    These lot here are doing this to bring the economy down inorder to make the people more depentent on government so their already bloated egos can baloon 10fold! They want the workin class to go beggin to them for help!

    CAnuck…..its real sad that a foreigner (no disrespect) has a better grasp on things then my own countrymen…real fuckin sad. On another note Canuck im curious….would any of the goings on in this administration be tolerated by Canadians if they were to happen in Canada?

    LAverns call for a list is bullshit cause i recall offering up various points in previous posts, I have heard the people offer up various points via talk radio with no action taken. LAvern since u so concerned about taking our words to ya plp friends…tell em we want accountability legislation, and that we want ALL of the laws on the books updated to 21century standards…including the loop holes that have allowed ya crew to steal from the taxpayers anti corruption laws and we want voters rights legislation that take power from you corrup politicians and gives it to we tha people so we can truly make your asses accountable

    Laverns job is spin maker…..and she not very good at it….i heard ya attempts to mess with mike charles on that teacher talk show.

    They dont care canuck…they have sold out we who voted them into power, and are only concerned about stuffing their pockets as fast as they can before the masses really wake up

  22. What the hell did _I_ do?

    and what’s wrong with being a person that apologizes after finding out that they’re wrong?
    Wait… what? Which one is bad? A person that DOES apologize or a person that doesn’t. You’ve railed against both.

    As for the rest… I don’t see anything but bitching. No solutions offered.

  23. Starling…..tourism…we the tax payers are still waiting for accountability on faith based tourism….like we are waiting for accountability on a few financial matters from the public purse..id like to add there are a lot of ideas on our tourism product that bermudians have. They dont get heard though. like a lot of things dont get heard.

    And we the curious few who hate this westminster joke of a demacratic society are awating (with great interest) your analysis on the road map for how the majority of the Bermudian population can bypass the various political roadblocks…the local legislature…(aka our loving corrupt politicians one and all from both parties) In order to force whatever power we have to answer to……so we the majority who agree, can set up our first bottom up democratic society.
    AS well as what particular safegaurds will our new constitution need to prevent any back sliding or removal of powers or rights from the people.
    Perhaps you can consult with the other blog owners who are of similar like mind for a combined look at

    THIS ULTIMATE SOLUTION thats jus 4 u elvis u @#$%#$%@#$%@#$%@#$%@ sent with a smile and love 🙂

  24. Cahow,

    As long as you keep saying the same things, I’ll do the same. Why do you people think that when I defend the PLP I’m getting paid? Who’s paying you?

    Canuck, my only response to you is that you know nothing of the PLP of the 1960’s or the PLP of today. The only thing that you know about the PLP is what you read in the Royal Gazette and that is far from the truth. Your comments about education reform, etc. etc. tells me that.

  25. The only thing that you know about the PLP is what you read in the Royal Gazette and that is far from the truth. Your comments about education reform, etc. etc. tells me that.

    So then set me straight

  26. Son of Obatala,

    I have never had any issues with apologizing when I am wrong. I just happen to have it on very god account that YOU presented a proposal and in your efforts to get what you wanted you attempted to bribe a senior Government official. If it turns out that it was not you I will certainly issue you with an apology.

    Let me ask you few questions and I do hope you answer them with complete honesty,

    (1) Did you or did you not release a 150 page press release to BBC & VSB detailing correspondence you had with various people involved in the EEZ proposal process?

    (2) Do you not hang out around Devonshire Rec wearing a beanie and speaking in a fake Nigerian accent?

    (3) Do you not practice Yoruba?

    Are you certain that I have the wrong person?

  27. Come on Guilden. Your going to out people because you feel grieved? You could have addressed it better.

    I imagine thats how you treat Bermudians that speak out against your doctrine. But then you don’t here. Of course you come back with your comments about family ties and being a supporter of the PLP and they make mistakes blah blah blah. Have a chat with your neighbours down south of you in Haiti. They could use some leadership. Such a great people being left behind by constant greed.

    Bermuda’s hourglass is running low. Anyone really observing it?

  28. Canuck,

    I’ve already tried to set you straight, but you’re just interested in finding criticism with the PLP, and I’m not talking about constructive criticism either. But, you can join the Party and come to meetings and find first hand what’s going on with the PLP.

  29. Cahow,

    I have not outted anyone (have you figured out who he is from my comments? I very much doubt it), Son of Obatala has stated that I have the wrong person, I am simply pointing out to him that I know who he is and that I do not have the wrong person. If he wishes to prove me wrong he is welcoem to do so and as stated, I will issue him with an apology. If he wants I can give him names of two of his former employers and some details of his proposal, which was rejected.

    As stated before, I have no interest in outing him or anyone else on this or any other blog. I have in the past correpsonded with others via email with whom I have disagreed and I have not outted any of these persons, nor would I. I simply will not sit idly by and allow someone to speak total untruths as SoO has done. If he prefers he can correspond with me via email, my email address is readily available but for his ease of reference it is guilden_gilbert@yahoo.com.

    Are you sure you are not Rummy as Elvis has stated? You sure know how to change a subject. What does Haiti have to do with this discussion?

  30. While the PLP has achieved some commendable targets, the below are just simply untrue:

    “Increased tourism arrivals numbers!”

    Visitor arrivals lowest since 1980 (straight from the Dept. of Statistics)

    “Decreased airfares allowing easier travel to Bermuda!”

    No Government can dictate the prices airlines set for routes.

    “Establishment of African Heritage Diaspora trail!”

    How exactly has this benefitted Bermudians?

    “Implemented geared to income housing for BHC Clients!”

    didn’t the BHC just raise rents by 10% or so in the middle of a recession? Nice…

    “Implementation of GPS software to aid the transportation industry!”

    Yeah that worked out real well and on top of that it turns out the Government’s actions were illegal!!

    “Establishment of the Bermuda Race Relations Initiative to discuss race in Bermuda”

    Headed up by Rolfe the racist. Brilliant!!! And yes HE cam be racist as he highlighted in the SUN that he has european heritage….

    “Enacted bladed weapons legislation to combat violent crime”

    And yet violent crime is up (and taking place in the middle of the in town), burglaries are up, drug use is up…

    What exactly has this administration improved education? They have successfuly lowered the requirements to pass (straight from a Cedabridge’s teachers mouth) in order to skew statistics to try and say they have resolved education issues. Oh yeah, and publicly denounced the head of the BUT, as nothing but a gym teacher, not to mention your tirade against him…

    My suggestions…

    Institute ant-corruption laws, in order to prevent the kleptomania that has ruined T&C’s financial stability and international repuatation. With nothing to hide (as you and all the current PLP administration claim) then this shouldn’t be such an issue. On top of that it would prove all the “haters” wrong and subsequently would have to cease all allegations against the PLP.

    Institute PATI/FOI, or whatever you want to call it. The PLP likes to compare themselves to President Obama so much, then follow his lead. Again with nothing to hide this shouldn’t be an issue.

    Stop overriding the planning department. What is the point of having one if everytime the PLP minister is going to override their decisions? The Dockyard piers, dumping at Coney Island, approving the beach bar on South Shore are all Government actions where they have flouted the laws with complete disregard for the environmental impacts that such actions have on BDA’sne and only natural resource.

    Make education a priority!! Not much more I can say about that…

    Create a transparent and accountable tendering process for Government construction projects. It’s absolutely amazing that the vast majority of the construction contracts for Government end up in one of two construction firms. Hmmmmmmm… Also while it is common practice for private investors to create blind trusts for business puropses, it is completely unacceptable for one to be utilized when tax payers money is the source of funding.

    Answer questions!! Stop with the bullsh*t retort of “plantation questions.” These individuals are elected representatives, despite the belief that it was “destiny” that put them in power. Thus they remain accountable to the people. The fact they refuse to answer questions regardign our money is absolutely disgusting and only helps to breed more rumors and hearsay.

    Those are just a few ideas that will improve the Government of OUR island.

  31. 9ps,

    You, like Cannuck glean all of your information from the Royal Gazette or Vexed Bermoothe. As I said to him, if you want the truth, join the PLP and get your info straight. Other than that, I choose not to respond to anything else you’ve written.

  32. Haiti is a place in need like many impoverished nations. It lies south of you yet your comments on local blogs almost all deal with Bermuda. Of course I understand your ties here and the roots that you have but being in such a position as you describe yourself, this could and should be another focus of your attention.

    Hard times are upon us all but your in a better position to do something according to your resume, thas all.

  33. C’mon LaVerne… you and I both know that that is a COMPLETE COP OUT!… and just proves that, IMO, your are nothing more than a Party Hack. ALL of 9ps’s suggestions are exactly what our Gov’t desperately needs to do to get honest! Do some Market Research if you choose not to believe me.

    Why do you have such a big issue with the RG? Because they print the Truth, and are part of the so-called “combined opposition?” Someone’s gotta take that role….

  34. Well that’s not surprising. Mostly because you’re not too sure how to answer them, because you don’t know yourself. That is the problem with the PLP, their secret ways inevitably breeds mistrut and then they have the nerve to say the opposition is creating a bad reputation of BDA. Any other mature democratic system would out reps that refused to answer legitimate questiosn regarding the tax payers money and Governmental processes. But in BDA all you have to do is throw around racial incinuations to avoid asking potentially incriminating questions.

    Your problem Ms. Furbert, is that you hold yourself and your party on too high of a pedestal, and your refusal to reply to any posters (after you claim that you know the ins and outs of the PLP machine and its processes) reeks of elitism and cowardice. I personally don’t think you know a thing, but maybe it makes you feel powerful to claim that you do. Who knows what goes through your head. But you are living in la la land if you think that the PLP is infalliable and flawless.

    And once again my previous posts reveal your penchant for telling half-truths and blatant lies. Your refusal to acknowledge them just reinforces your inabiltiy to grasp any sort of reality and debate in a progressive manner. Your silence is deafening.

    Now begin with the “you don’t know shit, and I know everything,” or “you racist byes just need to go away,” or “the PLP is the greatest thing since President Obama, oh wait PLP came first, so President Obama is the next best thing since the PLP,” or my personal favorite, “well the UBP did it before, so now its our turn.”

  35. Last I checked these local blogs are about Bermuda, are they not? Where do discussions of Haiti fit into discussions on internal matters in Bermuda?

    “…being in such a position as you describe yourself…”

    What position are you talking about?

    I understand the plight of Hatian as hundreds of them are caught illegally in Bahamian waters on a weekly basis. The Bahamas Government spends about $1.8 million per year repatriating them.

    “…according to your resume…”

    What are you talking about?

  36. Also, you are somewhat involved with the BHC, from what I understand. Why did the BHC raise rents in the middle of an economic meltdown, when rental values around the island are dropping? I thought the BHC was geared towards assisting low income families to ensure that they are provided with one of the necessities of life, a roof over their head. Seems kind of strange to me.

    But yuo won’t answer it, because you own mutliple properties and it is not your problem what happens to the BHC tenants. As long as you get your cheques (plural) at the end of the month. Your struggle is over, so screw the ones left behind. ELITISM

  37. ” join the PLP and get your info straight”

    That one statement above shows your complete lack of understanding regarding the democratic functions. I shouldn’t have to join a party to find out what the Government is doing, this should be publicly announced to ALL voters. They are accountable to ALL of the population, not just its menmbers or supporters.

    You just don’t get it do you. You lot (PLP/UBP) act like your in gangs, and then wonder why we have the same issues on the street. I suggest you read the fundamentals of democracy to gain a better understanding of what it means to be a democratic nation.

  38. Your being your typical self Mr. Gilbert. Resume means your standing in the bussiness that you portray on other sites and your knowledge of the Global Markets etc.

    Regarding your last question, you know exactly what I am talking about. Your internet opinions and comments stand for themselves.
    I have better things to do than have a back and forth with you. Amazing, must be your day off.

    Propaganda.

  39. I think that the PLP has indeed alot of good in its decade of power, but I do think more can and should be done. Often in this thread, or similar ones, the arguments become polarised and good suggestions may be swept aside in the heat of politicking, which is unfortunate. I do believe that PATI is in the pipeline but has not been placed as high on the priority list as some other pressing concerns, and other less important concerns may have superceded it. There are other issues that need to be addressed as well.

  40. Typical comment from you Starman. Apparently you have seen the light but can’t deal with it. Typical of a troll.

    I have nothing more to say on this site but I said that before. All you know it all’s can moan and groan and try and outdo the other. I’ll sit back and watch and say I told you so.

    Enjoy and savour the advice from certain posters whilst it lasts. The awakening will come sooner than some will admit and the eggs are all not in one basket as they would have you believe.

    Bon Jour.

  41. The advice is simply that if you think someone is being a troll, don’t humour them by reacting or otherwise being distracted by them. They will try to up the ante by being increasingly trollish, but eventually they’ll find something more fun to occupy their twisted minds.

  42. JS,

    I completely agree with you. As I pointed out in my first post that there are PLP accomplishments which should be acknowledged. But at the same time someone must highlight the blatant mis-truths that Ms. Furbert has a habit of posting/stating.

    My suggestions on anti-corruption laws and PATI will create accountability and silence all the PLP critics who claim corruption. Not only will it benefit the PLP, but it will benefit as a whole as we will be a country with an efficient governance structure in place, instilling confidence in the average voter as well as individuals/corporations looking to start/move their business to uour shores.

    More confidence equals greater stability and a brighter future. Just look at the on-going T&C inquiry to validate my claims. Their reputation is shot and all down to the absence of such laws and legislation. The scary thing is that Premier Misck constantly refers to BDA during this inquisition. Why I wonder?? Hmmmmm….

  43. Son of Obatala,

    I have one apology to make to you, the amount of your proposal was approximately $500K, actually redcued from just over $2M. I will not apologise, however, for the bribery, as you offered the senior Government official 15% equity in your proposed company or a commission based on the amount of captial he would have helped you to raise by providing you with contacts of proposed investors in your venture. This Government official was attempting to assist you and you know that to be the case.

    It is sad that you made that kind of offer to this official because I think you had/have a very good concept that would have/could done/do well. Even with your frustrations attempting to bribe is NOT the way to go. Also I think you are one who can stand up and say that from personal experience the PLP Government is not for sale. Others may disagree based on hearsay but your personal experience should help that door to be pushed toward the closed position. I guess I will wait to see if you are man enough to speak the truth AS YOU KNOW IT in this or any other forum.

  44. It’s amazing how people on this site try and re-write history, e.g. “Premier Missick constantly refers to Bermuda during his inquisition”. What do you consider “constantly”? Three times in weeks of testimony?

    Please see comment below about Bermuda’s reputation:

    “First, to assure the people of Bermuda, and in particular our important international business sector, that nothing negative can come of this review. This Government’s finances have been in the very capable hands of the late Honourable C. Eugene Cox CBE, JP, who was succeeded by our very own Minister of Finance, Paula A. Cox. At every turn, this jurisdiction has been on the cutting edge of pristine regulation, and is the envy of other jurisdictions as a result. As I indicated to this Honourable House previously, as recently as last month, a senior UK Treasury official had cause to comment that he wished that other jurisdictions were as well run as Bermuda. Bermuda can pass this financial review, and any other review, with glowing result. We have nothing to fear by this action, and we have nothing to hide.”

  45. 9PS,

    I have to fully agree with you regarding anti-corruption laws and PATI legislation. These should enacted without failure because having them enacted and enforced removes any doubts about corruption.

  46. “It’s amazing how people on this site try and re-write history, e.g. “Premier Missick constantly refers to Bermuda during his inquisition”. What do you consider “constantly”? Three times in weeks of testimony”

    You know the old sayings, “birds of a feather,” or “two peas in a pod,” or “your known by the company that you keep.” Lets not even mention Mr. Andre “Praise the lord I stole your money and what” Curtis, who just happens to be the Premiers campaign manager.

    Also, what did you expect the PLP to state other then the above. “First to assure the people of Bermuda that the economy is in incapable hands during these times of economic crisis…” Do you honestly just take every comment from any PLP politician as being the ultimate truth. While I am not disagreeing with the abiltiy of Ms. Cox, don’t you realise that ALL (not just PLP) politicans will spew and spin anything to put themselves in a positive light? Come on Ms. Furbert be for real. You’re always harping on about the Gazette being untruthful in their reporting, don’t you think politicians might just lie once in awhile to ensure that they retain power?

    Do you honestly have that much blind faith in automatically assuming that what they say is the truth? You truly are a fanatic and I guess that would make us the “non-believers.” Guess that is what you call Faith Based Politics then huh?

  47. Yeah, I think they are win-win situations there. My understanding was that the logistics behind it are actually bizzarely more complicated in small jurisdictions like Bermuda. I am confident it is still in the pipeline, and actively being worked on though. Just wish it would be sped up a little.

  48. The Registry of Interests, or whatever it’s called, is already in place. Why don’t our MPs follow the law and register their conflicting interests…? What do they have to hide? And while they are at it they might as well take the drug test. NOT!

  49. Yeah, I know that it already exists, but as far as I can tell its voluntary. I would like to see it become mandatory. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if many of the MPs on both sides of the House have many such conflicts of interests, but by not volunteering the info, well, it just breeds the perception of these conflicts being greater than what I believe they really are. Should there be criticisms of the Registry, then surely these should be discussed and the Registry improved as a result?

  50. “Do you honestly have that much blind faith in automatically assuming that what they say is the truth? You truly are a fanatic and I guess that would make us the “non-believers.” Guess that is what you call Faith Based Politics then huh?”

    9ps, you beblieve everything the PLP says are lies, and I “assume what they say is the truth”. The difference between you and I is that I do my own research, and you take your information from the Royal Gazette. Bermuda already has anti-corruption laws in place, but you obviously don’t know about them.

    Where did you get your information about the Premier being friendly with Premier Missick? I would think that the Premier has friendly relations with leaders of all the Caribbean islands, just as he has friendly relations with many US politicians, but some would prefer to just focus on the Turks & Caicos.

    As far as the “registry of interest” how would any of you know if our MPs have listed their interest, unless of course you know what their interests are and have actually checked the register and not seem them listed. Any member of the public is free to go to the House of Assembly and ask to see the Register. Have you done that Starman and Jonathan?

    I guess you’re right about MPs being drug tested, especially when we know that one MP’s husband has been charged with importation and another was sentenced to prison for his involved in drugs. If as 9Ps says, “birds of a feather”, or “two peas in a pod,” or “your known by the company that you keep”, maybe we need to have compulsory drug testing of MPs.

  51. “9ps, you beblieve everything the PLP says are lies,”

    Nah. I believe the majority of what you say are lies. Everyone knows that Premier Misick and Premier Brown are friends. But continue to cover up your bosses ass. Funny how you didn’t mention anything about Mr. Curtis either.

    The difference between you and I is that I understand what a democracy entails. research doesn’t include you asking the PLP member/representative to repeat their statement again so you can cut and copy it.

    You don’t seek a democratic nation, hence your continued threats and outing anyone that disagrees with the PLP. You are slowly becoming the PLP’s getsapo. Someone on BDASUX recently listed the people that you have threatened with expulsion from this island because of them opposing the PLP and the others which you have outed, like Mrs, Wells and Mrs. Dennis, who had nothing to do with the political situation. i believe I counted at least six. Those are the tactics of someone who doesn’t believe in the democratic rigth of free speech, but yet abuses to the fullest on a daily basis. You are a sick sick woman. And no it isn’t just whites that think that about you either.

    “maybe we need to have compulsory drug testing of MPs.”

    oh and by the way this notion was put forward by the Opposition to have it turned down and disregarded by the current Government as unnecessary. Do your research…….

  52. Is this not the third term of the PLP? Dr. Goebels was a member of the third term/reich.

    You’ve been so quiet Dr. Furbert. Stratagey and timming. Your about as predictable as weed comming off the flight from Philly. Always on time. Then once again the topic is , well I have no idea.

    Cahows gardener speaking.

  53. Hi LaVerne,

    I have indeed looked at the Registry, although in fairness that was some years ago. I am of the understanding that today it is still not completely filled out by all MPs. And yes, it would be hard to fully ensure that the Registry is complete, but it is a start, and as I said, if it is imperfect, then these imperfections need to be discussed so that we may correct them. having said that I personally feel that speeding up the enactment of PATI is of much more importance than the Registry and would do alot to dispel rumours and innuendo.

    I would like to stress that it would be nice if we could avoid polarisation and instead focus on what we all mutually agree on and what can be done to make things better. For example, instead of saying something along the lines of ‘The PLP is dragging its feet on PATI because it is afraid…’ lets try something like ‘PATI would benefit us all by x,y and zed, but what may be the problems with enacting it in the Bermuda/small island context.’ I stress, that is just an example.

    9PS – I deleted your last comment as I really don’t think it was neccessary and was perhaps said more in the heat of the moment?

    As for the drug testing, to me that has always been a red herring. I can understand its symbolic importance re setting an example for youth, but I really think there are better ways to go about it.

  54. As I have a field trip tomorrow up in the highlands tomorrow from 0800-2000hrs I’ve decided to put comment moderation back on for the timebeing. Hopefully this will give people the time to compose some thoughtful comments on many of the issues posted above – I am quite happy with this thread developing into a kind of free-flow. I will try to check the blog before I leave to clear any backlog, and with any luck I’ll be back earlier than stated to turn off comment moderation.

    Cheers!

  55. JS,

    Fair enough. Yes, it was heat of the moment, but I believe it was fair game as it wasn’t me who stated it, but her own child, bragging about it as if he was a role model for all Bdians to look up to.

    Ms, Furbert claims everyone is dumb and has no idea of what is really going on and claims she is the messiah of the “real” information, but refuses to share her never ending knowledge with us plebs.

    I still find it amazing that she still won’t respond to the:

    1) Andre Curtis situationS (plural) – Intl. Fraud and the $600,000+ of missing funds from the Faith Based tourism initiative – the same one where the overseas priests claimed that they were never compensated for – but they are probably just liars with some sort of vendetta against the PLP as well – can’t even trust priests these days

    2) Anti-corruption laws – which are antiquated an irrelevant – hence unethical but illegal response from the police regarding the BHC scandal

    3) Why BHC thought it was a smart idea to raise rents in the times of such economic uncertainity

    4) Education reforms that are suposedly to have taken place – (the ones she blamed Bill Zuill and the RG for delaying – although I was unaware any newspaper was involved in the implementation of governmental policies – the RG must be the most powerful paper in the world)

    5) The need for PATI/FOI legislation to prevent us from turning into T&C, which will cause irreperable damage to BDA and ALL of its peoples – it has been what 6 years since Mr. Scott put forward the notion!!!!!!

  56. once again @ guilden….u have tha wrong person. All of your “facts” are not connected with me, nor did i send anything to the press yet.

  57. While entitled to her opinion, Laverne makes weak arguments for what the PLP has done for Bermuda. What she does not get is that most people are beyond the whole UBP versus PLP, they just want the country ran properly. At this moment, the country is not being ran properly.

  58. 9ps…well said……its ironic how she was once tracked down by the system when she was a black beret…cause she disagreed with the statis quo. You have turned into or turning into what you once fought against…..supporting a black extension of a white supremist system of intollerance and unwillingness to reform.

    Starling….what many are saying is that the plp has done a semi good job at managing the day to day operations of this nation..they could do a better job in managing the reapir of our roads though (financial corruption or “mismanagement” allegations aside)….that should be the least we should expect from any government. If u cant handle running the basics…what good are you?

    It is not good enough

    and its apparent that “the haves” in this society think that being able to manage the nations basic functions = doin a great job as government…..wow.

    The ISSUES that caused the shift from ubp to plp in government have not been adressed. Government being detached from social issues and chasing down the money, spending of the peoples money, but not dealing with the social issues and giving real opportunities of forward progression to the people who desire to move from the so called poverty line level of income earning, the so called hand up but not hand out…

    lets look at stats over the 10yrs im sure you can plug in tha numbers if they exist…

    has the middle class grown or declined,

    has the number of working poor and poor risen or fallen,

    what is the poverty line has that line moved over the past 10yrs.

    Exactly how many people are living under the poverty line in bermuda…has that increased or decreased over the past 10 yrs

    how many people bring in an income above the poverty line

    Its been already proven that the varying payscales have not changed…white males gettin paid more then every one etc.
    The education system….holy shit!!!
    total mismanagement and no political accountability whats soever.
    Starting way back when education minister and premier jenifer smith ignored the teachers plea for a education review.
    This was the ground zero of the systemic education problems we have discovered in the recent review. The opportunity to reform back them…and prevent the massive potential side effects of a population of students from the time periods when education was allowed to go in a downward spiral…is a complete unknown @ this point.
    what are the stats of the chidren who were possibly harmed by the bad education system? How many of them are from middle class or poor families…etc.
    still no move towards a multicultural education system
    still depending on north american education models etc….when they are so far down the list of edcuation successful nations…etc

    The only change from this administration of the plp and the ubp from many peoples perspective is that…
    its tha same game with blacks in the chairs of the former 40thieves.
    and the weapons of choice are reverse racism, black on black prejudice and social class distinction.

    No vision = no change….and the people see no change….this s y obama hype is so strong…..the world in the most part r hopeful he will make sweeping changes that will effect many nations….based on the potential of his apparent vision.

    That same obama hype was with the plp…they had political capital so vast…..the opportunity was there to do so much…thats changed now……I dont think they had a real vision of reforming bermuda nor a plan on how to do it.

    We the working class are tired of the lipservice and the status quo.

    A new Labour union is being formed…..
    and
    its time for a new grass roots party…the upb looks out for the white rich eliete, the plp looks out for the middle class and black eliete.

    The time for the POOR PEOPLES PARTY is at hand.

  59. There are three basic economies.
    International
    State
    Private
    The international economy is in a recession but how the government manages the state economy determines how bad the private local economy suffers.
    The term limit law, Obama tax haven law and the recession has led us into the local PLP recession.
    Giving the long term residents status could lead to an increase in revenue and investment in new business and prevent the real estate market from collasping any further.
    Other ideas like casinoes and building Beach bars on every beach can boost the economy instead of cutting government spending that will lead to a deeper recession for the island.
    the problem is too many politicans dont understand state economics. Just world economies and thier fat swissbank accounts.
    Like a Cabinet Minister told me str8, ” I like recesssions i can get my house built cheap.”

  60. Son of Obatala,

    Your post under another thread:

    son of obatala said
    January 18, 2009 at 12:38 pm
    im not going to discuss specifics on here…..if u want to give me an email address ill talk to u there. All im gonna say here is that the scheems you talk about are not workin for all n people are sacrificing their hard earned money and time following directions that get them no result…..people who are saying these scheems are workin should go n apply for themselves to actually see what applicants go through, and experience the so called help they get.

    So you say you are not the person who emailed a 152 page dossier of email correspondence to all and sundry but basis your complaint appears identical. You say you won’t discuss any specifics on here but you will via email, I have already provided you with my email address, here it is again guilden_gilbert@yahoo.com. If you are not the same person about whom I have posted I would be interested to hear your story. I will await your email.

  61. Sara,

    You are absolutely correct, even though it is no secret that I am a PLP supporter good governance of my country is much, much more important than the political party that holds the seat of Government. Unfortunately in Bermuda there are only two options, they both have their flaws and the electorate is left to choose the lesser of the two evils.

    I would welcome a return to the days where each Member of Parliament sits independent of any political party and is there purely out of interest of doing what is best for Bermuda. Ministers would be selected based on areas of experience and expertise. That way the electorate elects the person best suited for the job. I think over the years party politics has done more to divide rather than unite Bermuda, which is a sad reality.

  62. 9Ps,
    can you show some examples of this?
    “Ms, Furbert claims everyone is dumb and has no idea of what is really going on and claims she is the messiah of the “real” information, but refuses to share her never ending knowledge with us plebs.”

    I think you should ask Andre Curtis those questions yourself. He was not acting as a member of the PLP, but was involved in a private business venture. As Dr. Brown said, Andrew is innocent until proven guilty. The only thing I know of his business dealings is what I read in the Royal Gazette and I don’t have the type of relationship with him where he would share any of his private business dealings with me.

    I think you need to re-read Minister Burch’s statement as to why BHC will be raising their rents. Read the statement in its entirety.

    When have I ever blamed Bill Zuill for the lack of education reform?

    I personally think that you have a problem comprehending what you read.

    Sara,
    Can you point out to me where I’ve compared the UBP to the PLP or vice versa? The only mention that I made of the UBP was regarding drug testing.

    You are entitled to your opinion as to whether the country is being run properly. Many people do think it’s being run properly, and they’re not only members and supporters of the PLP.

  63. SoO,

    Just call it like I see it – I’m not pro or con anything ending with “P”, and when one isn’t invested in “the party” I think it’s pretty easy to see what works and what doesn’t

    No, the day-to-day shennanigans we see here would never fly in Canada… our scandals are far more secretive than this! Considering Canada has actual legislation against hate speech etc, most of the racial rhetoric would get very controversial very fast as well. “I’m tired of people who look like…” would be a ticket to legal problems, not re-election

  64. “Canuck, my only response to you is that you know nothing of the PLP of the 1960’s or the PLP of today. The only thing that you know about the PLP is what you read in the Royal Gazette and that is far from the truth. Your comments about education reform, etc. etc. tells me that.”

    “You, like Cannuck glean all of your information from the Royal Gazette or Vexed Bermoothe. As I said to him, if you want the truth, join the PLP and get your info straight. Other than that, I choose not to respond to anything else you’ve written.”

    “Canuck,

    I’ve already tried to set you straight, but you’re just interested in finding criticism with the PLP, and I’m not talking about constructive criticism either. But, you can join the Party and come to meetings and find first hand what’s going on with the PLP.”

    Don’t have much time now, but here are a few examples of your condescending nature when it comes to opposing views of the PLP (that is just this thread alone). You go on and on and on about how all our information is false and that you know the “real deal” and then say that you aren’t interested in debating with us.

    This “I know everything, but I am not going to tell you lot” approach of yours only succeeds in breeding more mistrust in the same manner that Government representatives refuse to answer any questions put forward by the Opposition or the RG. You guys can shut down all supposed “unjustified criticisms” if you actually communicated with the people about what is actually going on with the Government and the tax payers monies. As I said beofore the implementation of PATI and UPDATED and RELEVANT anti-corruption laws would greatly diminish aopportunities for the public to cry corruption agains the Government.

    So one has to wonder why the lack of communication (i.e. BDA Music festival, Docyard Pier and Cour building costs and beneficiaries, just to name recent examples) on government projects to the public. This level of secrecy has the inevitable conclusion of one assuming that there must be some underhanded tactics taking place due to the reluctance of teh Government to reveal intimate details of the project. That is human nature, not just PLP opposition. If all these so called “conspiracy theories” of Government mis-dealings are simply untrue, then why not just be open, transparent and honest with the public?

    Many PLP members like to compare themselves to President Obama these days, so why the loooooonggggg delay with PATI. President Obama signed the FOI Act in his first days of taking office, the PLP have now been in power now going on 11 years.

    Your comment about blaming the RG for slow education reform was one of your “letters” in either the Sun or RG back in either November or December 2008. I will be glad to find it for you to refresh your memory. Admitting you were wrong is the first step. I know how to read and comprehend what I read, it is you that seems to forget what they say and write (i.e confused negro:) Remember that silliness. Nah, I bet you convieniently forgot that again….

    In regards to BHC rents, the details only became available today in the Sun. So it appears the rents are justified and I was wrong. See what happens when you are open and honest with the people that the Government serve (not the other way around). Simple soulution to a simple problem.

  65. 9ps – “Times of economic uncertainty” aside, if a family has been living in a 3 bedroom home for 10 years at a monthly rent of $429, there’s a problem and it’s time to re-evaluate. Likewise, if a family has a combined income of $10,000 month but pay well below the market value in rent… well… again… it’s time to re-evaluate.

  66. One of the big problems we have now is the office building boom. We have way too much potential office space coming onto the market today! It likely will get worse with work coming to a halt on many big projects which have now, or soon will have, ongoing financing problems, or potential tenants who have cancelled out. Unfortunately the Gov’t has contributed to the building boom by bringing their capital works projects, like the new courthouse, on line at the same time. If they had listened to the warnings that started a couple of years ago about the looming economic collapse and other threats to the Island’s IB, they could have held off on those big projects and started them now during the recession/depression. To keep Bermudian workers employed. Rather than needing to import almost 40% of the workforce over the past few years to build all these buildings, including Gov’t buildings, at once. The smart move would have been to spread out the work so we wouldn’t have needed to import so many tradesmen from the get-go… then bring the Gov’t projects on line now. Oh wellll!

  67. The basis of my complaint seems similar to the other case you refer to simply because, there are other cases…quite a few infact…I know this cause some one contacted me who was having similar issues and they were compiling a list of people who had similar negative experiences, who have had the same problem @ Guilden.

    Many people dont say anything cause they dont want any additional political based drama as a result of their speaking up…..its already been discussed on this blog how being “whitelisted”…aka political discrimination, is still a reality and a real fear people have for not speaking up about government cases of poor customer service.

    And this has happened to one person who got very vocal about their negative experience with this PLP government.

    These things dont get talked about or know to the taxpayers because there is no transparancy in government and no independent oversight on the goings on @ that quango….and many real stories, the press dont want to take on cause they have no balls.

    As for me divulging my specifics…that was specifically with starling and not the blog participants. I condiser starling a rare type of plp supporter…..balanced and objective. And the purpose of discussing my story with him was for him to gain a clear perspective as to why some of us former plp supporters have given up on the party.

    I would like to know, to what end and what purpose will divulging my story to you serve?…no disrespect…but if the politicians who are supposed to be in charge of the system were useless in resolving my complaints….what good will talkin to you about this do?
    Who are u any way and besides being a plp supporter who thinks im talkin a load of crap, what is your interest in all of this?
    If i do contact you @ ya email address it will be to discuss these questions above so theres no real need to answer me here…..but of course thats up to you.

  68. Hi Ms. Furbert,

    After a few searches I was able to find the letter in which you claimed:

    “Your newspaper (referring to Bill Zuill and the RG) has done more damage to the fostering of education reform in Bermuda than anything or anyone else”

    So it appears that I can read and comprehend even your letters!! Let me guess you didn’t write that, right?

    Here is the link if you need further evidence of why your claim of not having said what you said is just another lie:

    http://www.royalgazette.com/siftology.royalgazette/Article/article.jsp?sectionId=75&articleId=7d8c33b30030009

    Yours truly,

    9ps

  69. Hi CO,

    I am assuming your response was in waiting for moderation, hence why you didn’t see my last paragraph in my previous post:

    “In regards to BHC rents, the details only became available today in the Sun. So it appears the rents are justified and I was wrong. See what happens when you are open and honest with the people that the Government serve (not the other way around). Simple soulution to a simple problem.”

    Unlike certain individuals, I admitted was wrong, due to the lack of information provided at the time. The re-evaluation is definitely justified. But I wonder who at the BHC is responsible for the monitoring of such issues. I mean 10 years or so until it is caught is a little ridiculous and not a way a business should be ran. But good for Col. Burch for taking action.

  70. SoO,

    If you are not the person who I think you are and you are not the person who sent out an email to all and sundry constituting a 152 page dossier of email correspondence and you are not the person who offered the senior Government official 15% in your proposed company, at which point any chance of the success of the proposal ceased, then I offer you my apology.

    That being said, you have to see it from my perspective: Here we have you complaining about a proposal under EEZ that was denied, you felt you were not given a fair shake, you practice Yoruba and I believe you mentioned that you returned to Bermuda because you saw potential opportunities under the EEZ.

    Then we have this other person who sent out the email issuing the same complaint and expressing the same experiences as you, he also returned to Bermuda because he saw opportunities under EEZ and he paractices Yoruba.

    Surely you can see the distinct similarities between the two of you. Maybe it is purely coincidence that you and he are so similar in your religious practices, are similar in your experiences with EEZ and your attacks on the PLP Government because of your experiences.

    Again, if I am wrong than I certainly do apologise. Additionally, maybe there is a serious problem with the process of securing financing under the EEZ.

    Based on that I agree with you that there is no need to email me anything.

  71. 9ps – Agreed, not sure why it takes 10 years to re-evaluate this sort of stuff… I seem to recall a couple of years ago similar statements were being made that the BHC rents would be evaluated and adjustments would be made based on individual incomes, etc…

  72. SoO – You need to go find your long lost twin… the similarities in syntex and situation are astonishing… the odds off that happening in a population of $60,000 plus… well… stranger things have happened… *cough cough*

  73. CO,

    It does seem rather odd that the situations appear identical and the syntex and virtually identical…but as you said, “stranger things have happened”…I guess…

  74. Canuck

    “No, the day-to-day shennanigans we see here would never fly in Canada… our scandals are far more secretive than this! Considering Canada has actual legislation against hate speech etc, most of the racial rhetoric would get very controversial very fast as well. “I’m tired of people who look like…” would be a ticket to legal problems, not re-election”

    Tell that to the Canadian Aborgines. Canada, like the USA, has a lot to answer for when it comes to racism.

  75. Ms. Furbert:

    Canada is NOTHING like the USA when it comes to First Nations. The US declared a formal state of war against native Americans. Canada did not, opting to settle disputes through negotiation.

    Unlike the US, Canada’s fastest growing segment of its GDP in recent times was cash and cash-in-kind transfers to First Nations. Amongst many of the cash-in-kind transfers, Canada offers all First Nations FREE admission to universities, an exemption to taxation of any kind, and priority access to mineral and resource rights of various tracts of land. Canada has formally apologized in Parliament for historic abuses of the church’s residential schools. The list goes on.

    Please do your research – I think Canada has nothing to answer for.

  76. Hi Guilden,

    “I would welcome a return to the days where each Member of Parliament sits independent of any political party and is there purely out of interest of doing what is best for Bermuda. Ministers would be selected based on areas of experience and expertise. That way the electorate elects the person best suited for the job. I think over the years party politics has done more to divide rather than unite Bermuda, which is a sad reality.”

    Not to be disrepectful to you, but I would suggest that you read some Bermuda history books. There were few Members of Parliament, prior to party politics, who “was there purely out of interest of doing what is best for Bermuda”. The white Members of Parliament, prior to party politics, did what they felt was best for whites in Bermuda, and the black Members of Parliament, did what they felt was best for blacks in Bermuda.

    Why do you think party politics has done more to divide, rather than united Bermuda? Has that happened in any other country where the Westminister system is used? Has that happened in Bahamas, Canada, Antigua, Barbados, St. Kitts, England, Northern Ireland, etc. etc. And if we use you theory, who would select the Ministers? The Governor?

    9Ps,

    You obviously have a personal issue with me that I don’t understand. If you really want to have a personal conversation with me, call the BIU tomorrow and get my e-mail address, otherwise, lay off the personal stuff. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. You are correct though, I receive multiple rents (2) and it all goes to the Bank. I’ve worked very hard and make no apologies for the fact that I now own my own home (along with the Bank). If you want, I can share with you how I did it. One other thing 9Ps, I’ve lived much longer than you, so I know some things that you don’t know.

  77. Burch called for term limits for poor people in BHC poverty this is crazy because rich Premeirs and cabinet ministers and jokers in the backbench rape the counrty blind year after year. Not to mention corrupt pigs at these sportsclubs. Their children will pay one day trust me and rightly so. If BHC rents are supposed to be at market rates they should fall 30% but that premise is foolish each according to their ability each according to their needs is the fair way. If tenants are defrauding the govenment the minister should be charged with collusion how long has he failed to managed the public purse? If bhc clients bank accounts are to be bastardized in the media what about cabinet ministers union officals and everybody else. In St.Lucia a politicans was called out for having 16 bank accounts. Surrender retreat.

  78. Personally we need a Carribean army to hunt down all the corrupt politicans in the Caribbean and their children. What is corruption? Eight years is enough time to steal from the people. America is got it right.

  79. Hi LaVerne,

    No disrepect taken.

    In answering your question I can only discuss that about which I know and I can tell you that party politics has to a large degree divide the Bahamas in many ways. Party politics has even caused division in families. During the last election here, just as there was in Bermuda, calls by the PLP not to re-elected the FNM as it would take the Bahamas back to the days of the UBP (United Bahamian Party), which was very much the equivalent of the UBP in Bermuda. The difference is that the UBP here ceased existing as a party shortly after majority rule in 1967 when the PLP won the Government for the first time. Further the FNM is a party that was created by blacks who left the PLP, it was never a party representing whites although many in the white community do politically support the FNM.

    Party politics in many ways overshadows real and true discussion on issues because people get caught up in party loyalty.

    The very same thing happens everyday in Bermuda where the support of one party over another blinds people to the good that the other party may do for the country. An example they you may agree with is many participants on Bermuda Sucks are strong UBP supporters and no matter what the PLP does they will not find agreement. That is division along party line, is it not? The same goes for many PLP supporters who no matter what will not cast a vote for a UBP candidate even if the candidate would be a much better representative than the PLP candidate. That is division along party line, is it not?

    I have to be very honest and say that there have been significant racial overtones offered by the PLP leading up to elections. Personally, I think after 1998 the PLP had clearly shown it was more than capable of governing Bermuda so I saw absolutely no need for the party to use such tactics, it had a sound record on which to run. Bermuda would be better served by having politicians focusing on issues and issues alone.

    With that being said, however, the UBP is also very uch guilty of using race in its attempt to win the Government. Anyone who believes that the increase in the number of darker complexion candidates representing the UBP and the deliberate selection of black leaders is anything more than trying to appeal to black voters is very much mistaken. While this may be more subtle than the tactics used by the PLP it is still a clear political tactic.

    As you are aware, I am fully aware of the political history of Bermuda but I very much doubt that in today’s Bermuda you would find a similar scenario to what existed pre-party politics. What I would like see is the electorate making the determination as to which person holds which Ministerial post. I also believe that there should be enacted the ability to re-call a candidate so that any elected official who is not acting in the best interest of Bermuda can be taken back to the polls at anytime between elections.

    But these are simply my views and I do not ask anyone to agree with them because I think each of us is entitled to our views and the expressions of them.

    I do have to be honest, that under the existing two party system I very much doubt if I could cast a vote for the UBP as I have had some personal experience within the party and there have been occurrence with my father and the UBP that leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. The PLP is not perfect but in my mind it is the better party for Bermuda than the alternative.

  80. Hunt them down and… what?

    If by hunt you mean “Go out and find”, then… um… why do we need a “Carribean army”? Surely the legal system has ways of finding the corrupt politicians, no? Or are you saying that we, as a society, should bypass the legal system and just go vigilante-style on them, screw due process, hang ’em high? ‘Cuz that didn’t work so well in the past.
    Who gets to say who’s corrupt and who’s not? Is it you, Educated Pigs? If so, what gives you the right to make that call?

    Care to finish that thought, or is it just another verbal hand grenade thrown into a conversation?

  81. In keeping with the general theme on corruption… I find it interesting that more people aren’t outraged over the apparent failed attempt to set up Minister Burch and Premier Brown by doctoring cheques in relation to the courthouse construction. This should be seen as an affront to every Bermudian whether we supported/voted for the PLP or not. You can’t fight perceived corruption with fraud…

  82. – Yesterday, my Permanent Secretary, Mr Robert Horton, examined the records of the Ministry in relation to the construction of the new Magistrates’ Court / Hamilton Police Station Building. The Permanent Secretary’s examination of the records took place in order that we might be in a position to respond to queries which had been directed to us by the Auditor General.

    – I have no doubt that the Auditor General’s actions have been grounded in some very serious allegations that have recently been made in the Mid Ocean News newspaper, and repeated and referred to in The Royal Gazette.

    – These allegations included a particular statement to the effect that

    o “two high profile Cabinet Ministers [had] received payments from Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. , the contractors on the site) as consultants on the project, despite a clear conflict of interest.”

    – The Permanent Secretary was concerned to examine copies of the checking account records of Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. which had been submitted to my Ministry as a part of our due diligence process for the examination of Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd.’s ongoing payment claims in relation to the project.

    – The Permanent Secretary saw in the Ministry’s files records of two cheques which he immediately found of interest:-
    o (1) A Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. cheque numbered 0123 in the amount of BD$14,780 in favour of “Dr E Brown”, and
    o (2) Another Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. cheque, this one numbered 0170 in the amount of BD$10,000 in favour of “D. Burgess”.

    These purport to be records of completed cheque transactions sent by the Bank of Bermuda to Landmark and subsequently submitted by Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. to my Ministry.

    As a part of our investigation, however, we had asked Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd., now LLC Bermuda Ltd., to produce the entirety of their actual bank records.

    It took very little time to discover that the two cheques to which I have just referred never existed.

    The copies contained in the Ministry’s records were, without a shadow of doubt, fabrications of the true originals which themselves were:-
    o (1) Another Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. cheque bearing number the same number 0123 in the same amount of BD$14,780; but this time in favour of Scorpio Construction Limited”, and
    o (2) Another Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. cheque bearing the same number 0170 in the amount of BD$10,000; but this time in favour of Chester Management”.

    We have confirmed that the versions of the cheques which are in LLC Bermuda Ltd.’s possession are identical to those held by the Bank of Bermuda.

    In addition, the funds arising from these cheques were never deposited into the account of any Cabinet Minister. These funds reached their intended destination.

    And Landmark confirms that the only version of its bank records that it would supply are the original records supplied by the Bank and still in their possession.

    FINALLY, Landmark insists that no cheque has been issued, and no payment has been made, by them to any Cabinet Minister at any time.

    It appears that The Mid Ocean News may well have relied upon these same obviously fabricated records to support the scandalous and deeply injurious allegations that they have recently made and which have scandalized a number of people and caused deep distress to our families.

    To say that I am outraged at this discovery would be a gross understatement.

    Some of the allegations, speculation and innuendo which have been rampant in this community over the past few weeks have been very hurtful indeed.

    With the deepest outrage and feeling of insult, we come immediately to the public via this press conference in order to reveal this information, to express that outrage and, now through the Premier Dr the Honourable Ewart F Brown JP MP, to discuss actions which this Government has taken and which we intend to take in the immediate aftermath of this shocking and deeply disturbing discovery.

    Premier Dr the Hon. Ewart F. Brown JP MP:-

    Members of the media, I cannot begin to tell you how outraged I am by this discovery.

    At the same time, and having regard to the increasingly vile and underhanded tactics that have been employed by some of this Government’s detractors, I am somehow not entirely surprised.

    We thought it right to bring this matter to the public’s attention immediately.

    The matter will also be the subject of a thorough police investigation to determine what crimes may have been committed by the fabrication and falsification of these documents and their distribution by a person or persons unknown.

    These acts were clearly committed with the intention that they should be used to sully the reputation of this Government and to damage –if not permanently destroy- reputations.

    It is clear that they may also have been used to support and to catalyse invasive, costly and time-consuming investigations into Government’s actions in relation to the Court / Police Station project.

    It is entirely reasonable to conclude that these false documents have also led to the recent spate of articles in both the Mid Ocean News and The Royal Gazette.

    We have asked these newspapers to produce the evidence they claim to have in support of the allegation that two Cabinet Ministers have received payments from Landmark. They have not done so. They are content to allow their scandalous allegations to do all the damage that would inevitably result from their publication and their repetition, even in the absence of clear and irrefutable proof.

    This kind of mucky, cowardly and destructive journalism has no place in modern democratic society, particularly in a community of this size and in the face of the myriad of problems which we must resolve together as a community.

    We cannot prejudge. But I have to say that it is at least possible that these fabrications emanate from within the Ministry itself and that one or more civil servants may be found to bear some complicity in their manufacture.

    Let the word go forth that no stone will be left unturned in this Government’s efforts to uncover the source and purpose of these foul acts.

    Yesterday afternoon I visited His Excellency the Governor Sir Richard Gozney and asked that the matter be investigated immediately. The Governor expressed his deep concern about the issue and I expect that we will hear more from Government House as the investigation proceeds.

    ………………

  83. Press Statements from Minister Derrick Burgess and Premier Ewart Brown – The unfiltered version.

    – Yesterday, my Permanent Secretary, Mr Robert Horton, examined the records of the Ministry in relation to the construction of the new Magistrates’ Court / Hamilton Police Station Building. The Permanent Secretary’s examination of the records took place in order that we might be in a position to respond to queries which had been directed to us by the Auditor General.

    – I have no doubt that the Auditor General’s actions have been grounded in some very serious allegations that have recently been made in the Mid Ocean News newspaper, and repeated and referred to in The Royal Gazette.

    – These allegations included a particular statement to the effect that

    o “two high profile Cabinet Ministers [had] received payments from Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. , the contractors on the site) as consultants on the project, despite a clear conflict of interest.”

    – The Permanent Secretary was concerned to examine copies of the checking account records of Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. which had been submitted to my Ministry as a part of our due diligence process for the examination of Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd.’s ongoing payment claims in relation to the project.

    – The Permanent Secretary saw in the Ministry’s files records of two cheques which he immediately found of interest:-
    o (1) A Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. cheque numbered 0123 in the amount of BD$14,780 in favour of “Dr E Brown”, and
    o (2) Another Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. cheque, this one numbered 0170 in the amount of BD$10,000 in favour of “D. Burgess”.

    These purport to be records of completed cheque transactions sent by the Bank of Bermuda to Landmark and subsequently submitted by Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. to my Ministry.

    As a part of our investigation, however, we had asked Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd., now LLC Bermuda Ltd., to produce the entirety of their actual bank records.

    It took very little time to discover that the two cheques to which I have just referred never existed.

    The copies contained in the Ministry’s records were, without a shadow of doubt, fabrications of the true originals which themselves were:-
    o (1) Another Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. cheque bearing number the same number 0123 in the same amount of BD$14,780; but this time in favour of Scorpio Construction Limited”, and
    o (2) Another Landmark Lisgar Construction Ltd. cheque bearing the same number 0170 in the amount of BD$10,000; but this time in favour of Chester Management”.

    We have confirmed that the versions of the cheques which are in LLC Bermuda Ltd.’s possession are identical to those held by the Bank of Bermuda.

    In addition, the funds arising from these cheques were never deposited into the account of any Cabinet Minister. These funds reached their intended destination.

    And Landmark confirms that the only version of its bank records that it would supply are the original records supplied by the Bank and still in their possession.

    FINALLY, Landmark insists that no cheque has been issued, and no payment has been made, by them to any Cabinet Minister at any time.

    It appears that The Mid Ocean News may well have relied upon these same obviously fabricated records to support the scandalous and deeply injurious allegations that they have recently made and which have scandalized a number of people and caused deep distress to our families.

    To say that I am outraged at this discovery would be a gross understatement.

    Some of the allegations, speculation and innuendo which have been rampant in this community over the past few weeks have been very hurtful indeed.

    With the deepest outrage and feeling of insult, we come immediately to the public via this press conference in order to reveal this information, to express that outrage and, now through the Premier Dr the Honourable Ewart F Brown JP MP, to discuss actions which this Government has taken and which we intend to take in the immediate aftermath of this shocking and deeply disturbing discovery.

    Premier Dr the Hon. Ewart F. Brown JP MP:-

    Members of the media, I cannot begin to tell you how outraged I am by this discovery.

    At the same time, and having regard to the increasingly vile and underhanded tactics that have been employed by some of this Government’s detractors, I am somehow not entirely surprised.

    We thought it right to bring this matter to the public’s attention immediately.

    The matter will also be the subject of a thorough police investigation to determine what crimes may have been committed by the fabrication and falsification of these documents and their distribution by a person or persons unknown.

    These acts were clearly committed with the intention that they should be used to sully the reputation of this Government and to damage –if not permanently destroy- reputations.

    It is clear that they may also have been used to support and to catalyse invasive, costly and time-consuming investigations into Government’s actions in relation to the Court / Police Station project.

    It is entirely reasonable to conclude that these false documents have also led to the recent spate of articles in both the Mid Ocean News and The Royal Gazette.

    We have asked these newspapers to produce the evidence they claim to have in support of the allegation that two Cabinet Ministers have received payments from Landmark. They have not done so. They are content to allow their scandalous allegations to do all the damage that would inevitably result from their publication and their repetition, even in the absence of clear and irrefutable proof.

    This kind of mucky, cowardly and destructive journalism has no place in modern democratic society, particularly in a community of this size and in the face of the myriad of problems which we must resolve together as a community.

    We cannot prejudge. But I have to say that it is at least possible that these fabrications emanate from within the Ministry itself and that one or more civil servants may be found to bear some complicity in their manufacture.

    Let the word go forth that no stone will be left unturned in this Government’s efforts to uncover the source and purpose of these foul acts.

    Yesterday afternoon I visited His Excellency the Governor Sir Richard Gozney and asked that the matter be investigated immediately. The Governor expressed his deep concern about the issue and I expect that we will hear more from Government House as the investigation proceeds.

    ………………

  84. “The unfiltered version”

    Not quite. Politicians have a filter.

    I’d have preferred to hear from the Police first, whose investigation has now been made all the much harder because Brown and Co preferred to throw it into the political arena and prejudice an investigation.

  85. CO – to be clear, I’m not suggesting that you’re wrong to accept it at face value, but it suffices to say that there are some curiosities in the facts as relayed in the press conference – which may be clarified and explained satisfactorily in due course – that make be sceptical of whether a third party was attempting to stitch-up two Cabinet Ministers. It may turn out that everything that was stated in the press conference was accurate but, for my part, I will remain sceptical until certain aspects are explained further.

  86. I have no doubt that everything that was stated in the press conference was accurate. I have worked at the Ministry of Works & ENgineering and I know that it is almost impossible for just anyone to have access to Ministry files. They are as protected as Fort Knox.

    The question that I have is how would the Mid Ocean News know that the Auditor General and the police had in their possession two cheques made out to Cabinet Ministers. The other thing, why has neither the Mid Ocean News or the Royal Gazette printed the statement from Landmark that was sent to them several weeks ago stating that they had never made any cheques payable to any Government Minister?

    Also, why hasn’t the Mid Ocean News offered an apology to Landmark or the Ministers?

    I am not surprised when I read or hear that some people are sceptical. I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar that had the Premier and Minister Burgess not spoken out yesterday, those two cheques would have appeared on the front page of the Mid Ocean News today. That would have been enough to cast further doubt to the unsuspecting public. We continue to hear about corruption but nothing has ever been proven.

    Now I’m wondering about the BHC investigation. If the Mid Ocean News is correct that the Police had copies of the cheques, why didn’t they do their due diligence? I was at the press conference and if anyone remains sceptical what they’re saying is that officials at the Bank of Bermuda, Landmark and the two Ministers are all in cahoots, which I doubt very strongly.

    Why would Dr. Brown put his reputation on the line for $14,000? Why would Derrick Burgess put his reputation on the line for only $10,000.00?

  87. Loki – I’m not really sure what the point would be in Dr Brown and/or Mr. Burgess ‘staging’ some twisted sort of ‘they’re trying to frame us’, particularly when they have not been specifically named/implicated in all of the media speculation and innuendo. Not quite sure what they would stand to gain. On the other hand, I can see what somebody would stand to gain by trying to implicate the Premier and the Minister in something neferious.

    In any event, whoever did this ought to be ashamed of themselves… we’re all going to sink or swim together… and this is not the type of negative attention that we need to be dealing with when there are far more pressing issues that need to be addressed.

  88. The whole thing seems strange I agree. I just can’t tell you from which angle.

    The alleged frame-up would have been done both well (faked cheques) and terribly (easily disproved) which makes me question it.

    The press conference seemed rather contrived and staged and designed to pre-empt an actual investigation which makes me question the motives there.

    Either scenario is all very odd and worrying that a) someone would try to frame Ministers or b) Ministers would concoct a frame-up to cover up kick backs (albeit rather small ones).

    However, I don’t for one minute believe that information delivered by politicians is filter-less. In fact it’s usually highly filtered…hence why CITV shows press conferences but cuts off the broadcast after the official statement to preclude question time from being aired.

    PS Saying that W&E files are locked tight like Fort Knox makes me more suspicious of the frame-up claim not more inclined to believe it.

  89. CO, at this point I think I’ll restrict myself to simply saying that I can certainly think of circumstances where people would create easily-debunked fake evidence against themselves. To be clear: I am not alleging that that has necessarily happened here. I find the circumstances outlined in the press conference – without further clarification – riddled with curiosities and consistent with a variety of circumstances:

    1. An intentional attempt to frame Government Ministers;
    2. And attempt by someone in Government to create easily-debunked fake evidence; and
    3. An attempt to cover-up actual wrongdoing by Government Ministers.

    Without further clarification of the circumstances, it’s difficult to say which scenario is more likely and, given the source of the information, I think it prudent to view the matter with healthy scepticism. It may be that further clarification will be forthcoming and that it will emerge that the content of the press conference was 100% accurate, but I’m personally not prepared to accept that at this point.

  90. The fact of the matter is someone(2) copied cheques from the file, deleted/erased the orignal names on the cheques, and put two government ministers’ names of the cheque. I think that everyone in Bermuda should be outraged, yet, we have people on this site questioning the integrity of two government ministers, as if either one of them needed to take money “under the table”. You all make me laugh!! I wonder how you would feel if your names had been put on those cheques.

  91. So Loki,

    Effectively what you are saying is Dr. Brown and Derrick Burgess are guilty until proven innocent. Just because you and others do not trust members of this Government does not make them untrust worthy. As LaVerne pointed out, there are quite a few allegations of corruption being circulated yet to date there is no evidence to support these allegations.

    Many alleged that Michael Dunkley was involved in the drugs found in Dunkley’s Dairy containers yet there was never any evidence to suggest he was involved. I am certain you assumed he was innocent yet you do not apply the same standard of innocence to members of the PLP Government.

  92. “You all make me laugh!! I wonder how you would feel if your names had been put on those cheques.”

    Whilst it’s heartening that other posters on this site have been a source of amusement for you, your second sentence is a wholly circular argument in the context of your post. Quite frankly, certain people in Government have done more than enough to attract scepticism towards their words and deeds and I prefer to see how matters unfold before accepting what they say without corroborative evidence.

  93. “Effectively what you are saying is Dr. Brown and Derrick Burgess are guilty until proven innocent.”

    No, I’ve said that I am sceptical, which has a very specific meaning. The circumstances that have been outlined can be interpreted in a variety of ways and, given the people involved and their past deeds and actions, I am personally not prepared to accept their statements at face value without further corroboration. That does not mean that I do not necessarily think that events will unfold and demonstrate that their statements are accurate. If you are happy with what they have said, I respect that and that is your prerogative, but I’d thank you to show the same courtesy in return.

  94. Lokes – I’m not sure what corroborating evidence you’re looking for. The Auditor General uncovered these cheques, which were then found to have been altered from the originals to give the appearance that monies were paid to Dr Brown and Mr Burgess.

    As Guilden has pointed out, the term ‘corruption’ has been thrown around so much with respect to this Government with very little to actually back it up. Surely in the rumour-mill that is Bermuda we could find SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE who could provide actual evidence to support the claims of corruption. Other than the BHC pop and fizzle, other than actions which were clearly questionable, although not illegal, there was no hard evidence to back the claims of corruption. Unless individuals stop with the cloak and dagger stuff and claims and innuendo without providing evidence or statements of such, then to throw around the term corruption is very unfair and very dangerous. The whole world is watching and again, we will either sink or swim together.

  95. “which were then found to have been altered from the originals to give the appearance that monies were paid to Dr Brown and Mr Burgess.”

    At this stage, we only have EBs and DBs assurance that the cheques were altered and, given their past words and deeds, I’m not prepared to accept what they say at face value as to why cheques apparently exist with their names on. If you do accept it, that’s your prerogative. I’ll wait to see how the matter unfolds, particularly since there are in my opinion certain curiosities in what they have said, which may be clarified and explained satisfactorily down the road.

  96. Loki,

    You were not at the press conference and there are some things that you don’t know. That Bank of Bermuda has verified that the cheques were made out to the two companies that Landmark were dealing with. They were cashed and credited to their accounts.

    Yes, at this point in time we have the Premier’s and Minister Burgess’ assurance. That is enough for me, and many other Bermudians. Both are honourable men. If you know different, let us all know.

  97. “Yes, at this point in time we have the Premier’s and Minister Burgess’ assurance. That is enough for me, and many other Bermudians. Both are honourable men. If you know different, let us all know.”

    If you believe that, good for you. I believe differently and have no particular reason to take what they say at face value, as is my right. I see no utility in repeating for the nth time why I believe differently.

    To repeat: I’m prepared to believe that circumstances will unfold to demonstrate that the content of the press conference was accurate, but as matters stand all I have to go on is an explanation from two sources that hold no evidential weight for me.

  98. Loki,

    I think (i.e. my opinion to which I am entitled) you are simply too blinded by your distain toward the PLP to even be remotely open to the idea that neither Dr. Brown nor Derrick Burgess were given any cheques from Landmark. Even with this satement in the press conference -“FINALLY, Landmark insists that no cheque has been issued, and no payment has been made, by them to any Cabinet Minister at any time.” are you prepared to accept the truth.

    Does Larry Dennis and/or Landmark need to provide you with a written statement for you to believe the facts?

    In my opinion, you are simply hoping that something will stick so you can say, “I told you so.” It must be very frustrating to you and I note you have ignored it, that with all the allegations of corruption being levied against Dr. Brown and others within the PLP that not a single person has come forth with evidence to support the allegations. At some point it has to become nothign but a joke to allege corruption against the PLP Government.

    I will repeat, from your perspective anyone in the PLP accused of something like this is guilty until proven innocent, even mass murderers are give the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. It must really be difficult for you to harbour so much hatred and distain, but as they say, “Better you than me.”

  99. “It must really be difficult for you to harbour so much hatred and distain (sic), but as they say, “Better you than me.””

    First of all, how dare you. I’ve afforded you the courtesy of respecting your right to disagree with my opinion, and your response (presumably out of frustration) is both disgusting and, I thought, uncharacteristic. I actually thought that you were above that, but I guess I was wrong. Sad.

    Secondly, what part of “I’m prepared to believe that circumstances will unfold to demonstrate that the content of the press conference was accurate, but as matters stand all I have to go on is an explanation from two sources that hold no evidential weight for me.” do you not understand?

  100. Easy there, boys.

    Guilden, I gotta disagree with you on the “too blinded… to even be remotely open…” thing.
    Lokes said just the opposite, in fact.

    I think this is another “Two sides of the same coin” thing. He’s skeptical of the notables involved, whether that’s right or wrong, and expressed that. You and others aren’t.
    Shoe on the other foot and the same conversation would be going on, just the other way around.

    You’re both on the same page, just slightly different books. You both have the same intent, just different outlooks. You both want what’s best for Bermuda.
    There’s no need for these sort of pokes.

  101. “Does Larry Dennis and/or Landmark need to provide you with a written statement for you to believe the facts?”

    Not at all. I’d like to have the matter properly investigated, and to hear an explanation from someone other than two sources that hold no evidential weight for me. So far, the only information that has been forthcoming has been via those sources. Feel free to disagree, by all means, but the crude ‘hater’ generalizations and rhetoric will not silence me from making what is a very simple point, and one that I’m perfectly entitled to express, despite your apparent frustration.

  102. Loki,

    How am I not respecting your right to disagree? How is my response disgusting? Go back and rereaqd your historical posting with regard the PLP and tell me it could not be interpreted as I have stated.

    Frustration? Don’t kid yourself, very few people have managed to frustrate me because I do not speak looking for anyone’s agreement or approval, I speak what I think and feel FULL STOP. If some get offended by my comments than so be it.

    It is not about not understanding your comment, it is the fact that no matter what Dr. Brown or others in the PLP say with regard to a charge like this you are more prepared to believe they are guilty of it than not. You say all you have to go on is an explanation from two sources that hold no evidential weight for you. I interpret that to mean that no matter what they say you are not prepared to believe them until you are shown evidence to the contrary. Did I interpret correctly? If not please enlighten me.

  103. Loki – it’s not just an explanation from two sources. It’s an explanation from at least 5, so far.

    Premier brown
    Minister burgess
    Bank of bermuda
    LLC
    PS Robert Horton

    They’re all saying the same thing. The story isn’t tied together by the premier and minister in a vacuum, each group contributed their evidence and corrobated each other’s positions.

    So, do you really think that all those individuals from such different groups with separate interests would maintain any kind of conspiracy that would require a collective commitment to publicly lying? That sort of multi-party collusion just feels implausible enough to immediately dismiss. For me, at least.

  104. Guilden, how many times do I have to repeat myself? I’m sorry, but I’ve repeated the same point again and again and, yes, you don’t seem to get it. I’m not going to repeat myself again. If you want to continue with the crude generalizations and hyperbole, have at it. The only people who seem to be close-minded here are the people who don’t seem to accept any possibility that falls outside of their ingrained belief system. I’m prepared to accept that the content of the press conference could be entirely accurate; it seems that nothing could possibly make you think that it wasn’t accurate. That’s the difference. I don’t see that we’re going to achieve anything by further dialogue between us on this topic, do you?

  105. Elvis,

    My point is that when rumors were spreading that Michael Dunkley may have had some knowledge and invovlement in the drugs that were brought into Bermuda in one of his companies containers Loki never took the position that “Until I see otherwise I will not believe Mr. Dunkley’s denial of knowledge of involvement.” All I am stating is that everyone is and should be entitled to innocent until proven guilty. I believe rom past discussions Loki is an attorney and as such should be even more informed as to why this should be the case. I am quite certain Loki would not be very happy walking into a courtroom with his client and the jury has already decided he is guilty because of who he is.

  106. Perhaps if the government had in place openess and transparency practices “legislation” across tha board……then people who have attempted to “manufacture” this newest accusation of political kick backs or corruption wont even have a toe to stand on.
    As long as the light of openness and transparancy stays off….the longer the people who are skeptical of governments “honesty” will have good reason to remain skeptical. Especially since there are examples of their dishonesty.
    I personally think this particular case may well indeed be manufactured…the investigation should be interesting.
    Out of curiosity…what ever happened to the bullet in the mail investigation or the attack on senator dill investigation

  107. SoO,

    I am in complete agreement with you on the need for complete and total transperency of government but just because there si no legislation, never has been, does not mean that there is corruption occurring.

    You stated: “Especially since there are examples of their dishonesty” would mind giving us these examples. Are they substantiated or are they more hearsay?

  108. Elvis,

    I agree there were some making those comments about Mr. Dunkley and I was certainly not one of them. I am not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I think it is inappriate to make such ascertians in a public forum without having evidential support.

  109. lol well ace boy…..if u think when de cat is away de mice aint playing…i got a bridge up in sommerset I can sell u…lol

    But seriously…….

    The 40thieves claimed they werent corrupt either..most of us know how that “story” played out…..with the many insider deals they had goin on via kick backs.

    As long as there is resistance to transparency… they are hiding corruption in my view.
    If theres nothing to hide then y are all the transparency lights still off?
    So until transparency happens I dont trust any of these so professional lyers…aka politicians.
    Until transparency happens they are all crooks in my and many other peoples eyes.
    The only way my mind will be changes on this is when transparency = the law of the land!

    AS for listing examples…the direct one would be the croniism thats been going on with government contracts. Ive listed a few points in my various posts over time….one being the issueance of government contracts to UPB politicians…which is also corruption, and is used as leverage to keep the opposition quiet on various issues….i made mention of this point b4.

    The rest of the things would more den likely fall in the category of hear say in your view…so i will not dare speak alla that …the plp secret poliece headed up by the ever vigulant lavern furbert… will mo den likely come to get me for trying to overthrow the government…..lol

    The Poor Peoples Party….. Will bring transparancy and accountability and reform to how Bermuda is governed. It will be done because the people demand it!!!

  110. “Ive listed a few points in my various posts over time….one being the issueance of government contracts to UPB politicians…which is also corruption, and is used as leverage to keep the opposition quiet on various issues….i made mention of this point b4.”

    That’s a bit of a losing point, though, isn’t it? If they didn’t award contracts to UBP politicians, people would say that it was evidence of cronyism, but when they do award contracts to UBP politicians, you see that as evidence of corruption.

  111. As I continue to say, until Bermuda’s media matures, we will never know the truth about anything that happens. For Loki and others, their only source of information is the Royal Gazette, the Bermuda Sun and the Mid Ocean News. I know for a fact that Landmark sent a statement to all of the aforementioned news outlets stating that no cheques were made payable to any cabinet ministers, long before this latest incident, but the only media outlet that carried their statement was ZBM. And we know the there is only so much that the electronic media can say in 10 minutes.

    The Mid Ocean News published its story on January 16, 2009 that the police and the Auditor General had copies of cheques that were made out to two cabinet ministers. Certainly in a month Mr. Dennis and the Police could have investigated the matter. The questions to ask are (1) Did the police carry out an investigation; (2) Did Mr. Dennis carry out an investigation; (3) Was the bank on whom the cheques were drawn contacted? (4) Were the cheques endorsed by D. Burgess (how many people make out cheques with just the person’s first initial?) and Dr. E Brown? (5) Were the cheques cashed by D. Burgess and Dr. E. Brown?

    The above questions are just rudimentary and should not take a rocket scientist to determine that they should be asked.

    I keep hearing people talking about transparency of government. Can someone give me an example of what they mean? I know that the Department of Communications and Information spews out at least 10 press releases a day. I know that whenever Parliament is open there are as many Ministerial Statements as there are ministers. I also know that each question that was asked of Minister Burgess with regards to the court building and the Ministry of Works and Engineering he answered. However, I do not believe that a private firm (Landmark) is beholden to answer any questions from the press.

    As far as the bullet in the mail and Senator Dill’s attack, those questions should be asked of the Police. I don’t think that anyone has come up with who sent Lois Browne-Evans and Ottie Simmons bullets in the mail, and that happened decades ago.

    Forgive me for this gaffe, but I always thought that Loki was a woman.

  112. I didn’t get to finish my last sentence which should have read “I always thought that Loki was a woman, not that it makes a difference.”

  113. Guilden…

    “I am in complete agreement with you on the need for complete and total transperency of government but just because there is no legislation, never has been, does not mean that there is corruption occurring”.

    And of course, having such legislation/regulation in place doesn’t prevent corruption either as we all know.

    Sadly of course, in the case of Bermuda, the lack of such legislation simply acts to allow yet “further” question and doubt to be cast on events such as this.

    One is left simply wondering why it isn’t in place.

  114. Not saying they did, not saying they didn’t, but do you accept at face value the testimony of the accused? – even if they are guilty (which is an open question, and in this circumstance I doubt), do you honestly think they would admit this is a public forum.

    Given all that is happening in TCI, I think something went very wrong there (my opinion), but I do not think that Michael Misick or his buddies are going to come out and say “I did” !

    Laverne Furbert & Guilden Gilbert obviously believe what was said by Messers Burgess & Brown, others don’t. Such is life. Hopefully the total truth (the whole truth and nothing but the truth) will come out, and then we can all judge for ourselves.

    Pitts Bay

  115. Pitts,

    You raise an interesting point about TCI but remember it also was not the sitting Government that asked for the convening of a Commission of Inquiry and there had to have been sufficient evidence to cause a Commission of Inquiry to be convened. If this is evidence to cause the same to occur in Bermuda than let those who have such evidence bring it forth.

    I cannot and will not vouch for anyone but I do strongly believe in fairness and even if I believe someone may be guilty of any offense I would not make public statements trying to portray them as guilty. It just does not make sense in my view to do so.

    Even in TCI there are allegations against Premier Missick and his Government and at the completion of the Commission of Inquiry a decision will be rendered, that is what due process does.

  116. “Not saying they did, not saying they didn’t, but do you accept at face value the testimony of the accused? – even if they are guilty (which is an open question, and in this circumstance I doubt), do you honestly think they would admit this is a public forum.”

    Pitts, that is precisely the point. As I commented elsewhere, unquestioning acceptance of the Ministers’ assurances is “akin to a policeman pulling over a driver that stinks of alcohol, asking him if he’s been drinking and then letting him go when he assures him that he has not! Cheques were discovered in Ministry of Works and Engineering files that purported to be paid by the contractor to two Cabinet Ministers. Even without the past words and deeds of the Cabinet Ministers involved, which may give some cause to distrust them, it’s illogical to simply accept what they say at face value without doing further investigation. There may be absolutely no wrongdoing by the Ministers, but it makes no sense to simply accept that merely because they assure you that they’ve committed no wrongdoing.”

    The bottom line is that you can’t simply accept at face value the assurances of those that have been potentially implicated in wrongdoing.

  117. its evidence of corruption loki…. its a bribe for silence.

    EG and i posted this b4 in another thread….when bob richards started talkin bout id cards burch came out on tv n said y u complaining u got a contract to do work on dis…den he threatned to pull de contract with his ubp politician pal also done on tv…so that the lavern furberts cant say its another paper conspiriacy….
    so did burch pull richards contract 4 speaking out on the issue? the public hasnt been informed on this….

    thats y its corruption n contracts for political silence frm the opposion when they get awrded these more den likely untendered contracts.
    another example…land scaping contracts goin to ubp landscaping company….so yes its all corruption.

    NO POLITICIAN SHOULD GET A GOVERNMENT CONTRACT FOR ANTHING. Prifiting frm ya political office while public gets shut out = corruption

  118. Loki,

    I actually came to my conclusion because both the HSBC and Landmark denied cheques were made payable to Dr. Brown and Derrick Burgess. I am curious, what past words and deed of the Cabinet Ministers in volved are you referring to that would make them untrustworthy and makes you think they could be corrupt?

  119. “I am curious, what past words and deed of the Cabinet Ministers in volved are you referring to that would make them untrustworthy and makes you think they could be corrupt?”

    I’ve already stated that I see no point in getting into a back and forth on that particular point and repeating what I’ve previously said ad nauseum. For the avoidance of doubt, however, I can confirm that my opinion in this regard certainly does not derive solely from press reports and that my own personal experiences are very relevant. You should also note that my point was that, regardless of their past conduct, it is in my opinion illogical to simply accept what they say at face value.

  120. To better understand what government corruption actually is, and the many forms it can take, please log onto the U4 Anti-Corruption Resource Centre website: http://www.u4.no It’s quite good….

  121. So, the jury has found the PLP guilty of corruption. Members of the jury include, but are not limited to the following:

    Tom Vesey
    Bill Zuill
    Stuart Hayward
    Tim Hodgson
    Loki
    Son of Obatala
    Vexed Bermoothes
    Pitts Bay
    Educated Pigs
    Smoking Gun
    The Truth
    Sandgrowan
    Blankman
    and of course Twiggie, posthumously.

    As Stuart Hayward said in his latest column, we in Bermuda must thank Vexed Bermoothes for steering us to http://www.u4.no so that we all can see the definition of political corruption.

    It is quite evident that PLP Members of Parliament have benefitted from their corrupt ways. Most, if not all PLP MPs own their own homes, all own cars, all, who have children have sent these children to college, all take vacations abroad. All own at least two suits to wear to the House on Fridays. I even hear that most have savings accounts and some even have investment accounts. Had these men and women not been involved in corruption there is no way in hell that they would have been able to accomplish all of the above.

  122. At this stage it’s pretty clear that the checks were altered and I’m also willing to accept Landmark’s statement that they did not make any payments to any ministers etc. (fact is they’d have to be pretty dumb to do so directly – that’s the sort of thing that can be checked too easily).

    So we are left with the question of “Who altered the checks and why?” Whoever did it had to know that this was something that could be debunked with almost no effort which suggests that whoever did it EXPECTED (wanted??) to get caught.

    That would seem to leave only two options:

    (i) somebody attempted to frame the individuals in question in the most transparent easily debunked way imaginable [which means that someone was sophisticated enough to access the documents and do a passable job of altering the checks but was sufficiently stupid enough to think that no-one would catch on]

    (ii) someone set this up with the intention of getting caught for reasons of their own [just Google “Karl Rove wiretap” if you want a very public example] – after all, now we’ve got some individuals who can now run around and say “See, we’re honest. Those guys are trying to frame us. And now we have proof.”

    Take your pick.

    As for me, I’m waiting for the results of the investigation to make up my mind. I figure we’ll get a definitive answer about the same time as we find out who mailed the bullet and why. 😦

  123. You’ve hit the nail on the head, Blankman. As I’ve said elsewhere, on the one hand the story seems to be that someone was cunning and nefarious enough to have both the desire and ability to gain access to the Ministry of Works and Engineering files (which are, apparently, ‘locked up like Fort Knox’), and yet on the other hand that same cunning and nefarious person was so ridiculously stupid that, having gone to all that effort, they chose a method of framing the Ministers that could be debunked almost immediately because it was so transparently simplistic.

    Note: I believe that it was a bug that Karl Rove planted in his own office, rather than a wiretap.

  124. Loki,
    Am I correct in saying that every time Twiggie posted a comment on Bermuda Sucks she was mocking eRat Brown? I don’t recall you ever calling her on her nasty comments.

    Blankman,

    I can tell you that there are two people who could not access the W&E files – Premier Brown and Minister Burgess. That must mean that a civil servant was paid to to place those cheques in the LLC file.

    As far as the bullet is concerned, as I said before, I’m still waiting to find out who mailed the bullets to Ottie Simmons and Dame Lois Browne-Evans. Maybe that person is still alive and has a stash of bullets. Do you know of anyone in Bermuda who was ever charged with having ammunition in their home?

  125. Mrs Furbert asked for an example of plp corruption: When the plp Gov’t, under the auspices of Minister of Works Mr Burgess, paved the Main Road in Southampton with the People’s money, in an attempt to influence the outcome of the recent bi-election in favour of the plp’s candidate, Mark Bean. Just one example….

  126. “I don’t recall you ever calling her on her nasty comments.”

    I don’t recall you calling your son out on his numerous racist, nasty comments, so your point is?

  127. just another example…..political influence on human rights cases where the government has broken the consitution and civil rights of bermudians

  128. just another example….

    government officials and civil servants sending and recieving emails that were under confidentiality protection clause

    government officals being involved in interlectual property theft

  129. just another example….

    government officials and civil servants….sending and recieving emails that were under the protection of confidentiality clause.

    another…..

    government officials and civil servants being involved in various cases of interlectual property theft.

  130. another…..

    being the richest per capita nation in the world but the population of middle class people are decreasing….the working poor increasing..and the eliete rich…blacks n whites getting richer

  131. another…..

    a black labour party…that used to be grass roots…that used to be about the fight for civil rights, to the point where its members and leader were involved in “terrorist organisations of the 70s”…that has now changed its focus from the needs of the people to the needs of the dollar bill.

  132. Loki,

    I think both candidates asked for the road to be paved. I note that Stuart Hayward also cited that as an example of corruption as well. I think that’s stretching it a bit.

    Also, can you give me an example of pay to play.

  133. I can tell you that there are two people who could not access the W&E files – Premier Brown and Minister Burgess.

    Who ever said that either of these individuals placed the checks in the file themselves? I’ve never said that – all I’ve ever done is question the motives of whoever did so.

    That must mean that a civil servant was paid to to place those cheques in the LLC file.

    So we have someone that’s able to access files that, in your own words, are locked up tighter than Fort Knox and is also sophisticated enough to be able to modify the checks in such a manner that they pass a cursory review [given the nature of checks and the paper they are printed on tampering is extremely difficult – white out and/or erasers won’t do it – and I’ve seen nothing regarding the endorsements on the back of the checks when they were supposedly cashed so I don’t know if those were altered as well]. But at the same time these unnamed individuals are so dumb as to attempt to frame someone using these altered checks knowing that it would only take a few minutes with the relevant bank records to prove they were fakes?

    The only way that makes sense is if the perpetrators wanted to be found out. 😦

  134. “Tina Poitevien – were any charges laid”

    You’ve frequently accused the UBP of being corrupt when in Government. Were any charges laid? Exactly….

  135. The wholly unethical leasing arrangements regarding Coco Reef…………….Wedco ‘coincidentally’ dropping fundamental lease conditions for the Bermuda Cement Company as soon as the company had been wrestled into the hands of one of the Premier’s friends.

  136. Loki,

    I’ve never accused the UBP of being corrupt when in Government. I’ve just asked some questions about members of the UBP, in particular government ministers who had government contracts when they were in power. I mean if I use the examples of political correction given by Stuart Hayward and Vexed Bermoothes I would have to come to that conclusion. But, none of us in Bermuda would ever accuse members the UBP of political corruption. They were just smart business people.

  137. “I’ve never accused the UBP of being corrupt when in Government.”

    Yes you have. Frequently. And there’s video of you doing so, in fact. And, no, I’m not going to bother posting the link, because we all know how unfortunate it got last time I posted a video that showed you saying something that you had denied saying, don’t we?

  138. “But, none of us in Bermuda would ever accuse members the UBP of political corruption. They were just smart business people.”

    Um, no, if Government contracts were handed out to UBP Ministers and ‘friends’ of Ministers under the same type of circumstances as has happened under the PLP Government, then those arrangements were corrupt. I’m assuming that you were expecting me to argue otherwise, so I hate to disappoint you.

  139. Apparently, back in 2005, Tina Poitevien, the Bermuda Government’s US pensions consultant, targeted individuals for political “donations” based on their need to curry favour with herself and a Cabinet Minister. Ms. Poitevien and Dr. Brown presented invitees from the US investment sector with an all too common dilemma; either comply, hopefully securing or increasing your position in Bermuda’s pension funds – a practice known as ‘pay-to-play’ – or decline and risk being shut out. Rejecting the invitation, or accepting but failing to write the $2,500 cheque clearly ran the risk of that negatively impacting on the individual’s firm.

  140. I think it’s important to emphasize (important to me, at least) that this is not about hating the PLP or its supporters, or about alleging that the party itself is corrupt. Just off the top of my head, I can think of a number of PLP MPs and associates for whom I have a tremendous amount of time: Wayne Perinchief, Phil Perinchief, Kim Wilson, Wayne Caines, Neletha Butterfield, Ashfield Devent, Alex Scott (I’m happy to admit that I was wrong about him, and that he’s a decent guy), Dale Butler, Michael Scott, Stanley Lowe, Walton Brown. Not that they need my approval, mind, but this simply is about hating the PLP.

  141. Loki,

    I don’t think you can post videos here. I shouldn’t say I don’t know why you all get upset because I called Shawn Crockwell a confused negro because he said Sir Henry Tucker helped to fight the oligarchy. One thing you must know about LaVerne Furbert by now, she does everything in the sunshine of public scrutiny, unlike many of you here.

    You could never disappoint me because I never expect anything from you.

    I see no sense on continuing with this thread. You all are posting hearsay and innuendo, none of you have any facts. You are all posting what you have read in somebody’s newspaper.

    The only PLP member of Parliament who was charged with corruption was Nelson Bascome and we all saw what happened with the case.

    The fact of the matter is the PLP is the elected government and will be there until the people decide differently.

  142. “I don’t know why you all get upset because I called Shawn Crockwell a confused negro because he said Sir Henry Tucker helped to fight the oligarchy.”

    I didn’t get upset that you called him a ‘confused negro’. In fact, I was quite happy to have proved beyond all shadow of a doubt that you were a liar when you denied labelling him as such.

    “none of you have any facts. You are all posting what you have read in somebody’s newspaper.”

    Wrong again. You assume far too much if you believe that I am basing my opinion solely on what I have read in the newspaper. To reiterate: I have had direct dealings with Ewart Brown.

    “The fact of the matter is the PLP is the elected government and will be there until the people decide differently.”

    Any more trite comments that you want to sling our way?

  143. You seem to think that everything printed in the local papers is bull sh*t. In fact it seems that anything that you do not agree with is bull sh*t in your mind! You’ll never learn anything with an attitude like that, Mrs Furbert. With real Gov’t transparency and FOI legislation we could avoid all this negative speculation about the plp. Because they would have to behave themselves if everything was be out in the open. Right now nothing is out in the open… not even when the House meets… or an agenda of what legislation the Gov’t plan to introduce. No plans whatsoever.

    I like what SmokingGun had to say a while back, “The plp is a fly-by-night, balls-to-the-wall, spend it all, seat of the pants operator with a greasy grip on the wheel.”

  144. Can you point me too the quote Starman? I would love to get a copy of it since they don’t post here as far as I can remember.

  145. star man…….

    the people who have sold out the cause because of the various enticements…will never agree with anything that will end the gravy train.

    this is why the people of bermuda have to force systemic change themselves and completely bypass this historically corrupt system, its historically corrupt politicians and its political cronies and spin doctors.

    They will never bring in the systemic changes to modernize this place cause they have various capitalistic and power tripping adjendas to fulfil.

    So We the people must usher in the change that we desire…. fuck these political parties…straight up.

    This means organising as a group of like minded people…and educate the population on what real systemic change here is and rally them behind that cause and as a polulation go to the uk and the Un with a petition of no confidence in the governance of bermuda under the westminister system because of inherant historical corruption.

    and force systemic change and drafting of a new constitution founding a ground up governance of bermuda…a real democracy.

    While still keeping out colonial ties till the nation is mature enough for indipendance.

    Every time an international body wants to come and inspect bermuda…the government who claims to be transparent….dont want them to have access.

    If you are not running a corrupt system…babylon….then y are u not opening the doors to the international bodies who will vouch for your being a transparent non corrupt government?

    If you are not fuckin with our tax payer money….y not let them come in a review the books.

    what i have learned is not to trust any politician or take their word for anything they say…same with religion….the masses want to see it for our selves in black and white.

    that means openness n transparancy

    until that happens no matta how much u may claim the opposite you are corrupt and unwilling to reform according to the wishes of the people

    U have become babylon system

  146. correction…

    While still keeping our colonial ties till the nation is mature enough for indipendance

  147. All you have to do SoO is talk it up to convince a few people to join you… rent a hall and set a time… tell the media what you’re gonna do… place a few small ads in the RG… and then wait for people to show up. You’ll soon know if it can be done. Sounds like a good plan, but maybe you’re being a bit idealistic. What are you gonna call your new organization, and how are you gonna keep it from evolving into just another political party?

  148. Well starman….watin for some input frm starling and others…n its not “my” organization

    nothin idealistic at all its just logic at this point….the chain of command is broken with the westminster system…the people want changes..the local governemt isnt responding…so we going over their heads to their international superiors.

    Just like is u have problems in customer service with a store supervisor….(the governmemt) you go over their heads…the store owner (uk govt).

  149. If you’re gonna go to the UK Gov’t you’ll probably need a Petition of Non-confidence in the Present Government signed by a large % of the population before they will take you seriously. Also GB invented the Westminster system, they may be happy with the status quo.

  150. Heavens Starman. Sounds like a first down in Pemboke 1965. Who has the Ball at this time? What a bunch of circular jerkism.

  151. “You all are posting hearsay and innuendo, none of you have any facts. You are all posting what you have read in somebody’s newspaper”.

    Partly true. But…

    On a common sense level, the RG should be seen as a provider of raw data. One should not accept what they (or indeed any other publication for that matter)publish as being ‘gospel’. You are obligated to think the matter through and to draw your own conclusions.

    If you add to the raw data a discerning mind, capable of thinking through the options, possibilities and the alternatives, it should be possible to arrive at plausible outcomes.

  152. Blankman,

    A third scenario/option is that somebody either has credible information but is unwilling to come forward, a genuine belief that improprieties are taking place with the project, or is just being malicious and planted the cheques fully knowing that they would raise red flags prompting further investigation which would unearth the ACTUAL evidence that would implicate either EB, DB or perhaps other parties as yet unknown.

    Likewise, I do not think there can by any doubt that the cheques were altered, as has been confirmed by Lismark and the Bank who were able to present the originals. To throw the entire country and potentially innocent individuals under the bus is distasteful.

  153. CO, in other words they wanted to get caught.

    Your suggestion does require that the individuals in question either have or believe there is real evidence on the island that will be found during any sort of investigation which means that they at least don’t believe the individuals in question are “potentially innocent”. I’d also argue that this doesn’t constitute throwing the country under the bus (unless you’re of the opinion that when someone starts digging they’ll find an extremely widespread web of corruption that will somehow tarnish Bermuda as opposed to the guilty parties).

    I’m not disagreeing that the checks were altered although if it was an attempted frame up that requires that individuals who were capable of altering the checks (not exactly a trivial job by the way) and placing them in the relevant files (which, according to Laverne, are extremely secure) are also so dumb as to not realized that a few minutes with bank records would show the checks were fake. That doesn’t make sense.

  154. Has anyone other than DB and EB stated publicly that the cheques were altered? I don’t have any particular reason to believe that they weren’t, but has anyone from Liskar or BOB publicly confirmed that they were altered, or do we just have the word of DB and EB at this point? It seems pretty improbable that either man would give misleading information on that point, but I keep hearing that Liskar and BOB have said certain things, but I’ve yet to hear anything that didn’t come via DB and EB.

  155. Blankman…

    No. They didn’t “want to get caught”. They wanted to raise enough speculation to prompt an investigation in the hopes that “real” evidence would be uncovered. It’s throwing the country under the bus because in the current climate where so much is at stake and throwing around terms like “corruption” without being able to corroborate the claims is damaging to this country’s reputation. The longer this crap goes on, the more damage is done. If somebody does have concrete evidence of wrong doing then let’s get on with it. If not, let’s stop all the fuss and personal vendettas and get on witih it…

    Crabs in a bucket…

    Loki – The matter is being investigated by Police. BoB’s position is that the matter is under Plice Investigation and cannot therefore comment although the Permanent Secretary has also confirmed the fact that the cheques were altered.

  156. Martin –

    The problem with viewing the RG as “providers of raw data” is that oftentimes they’re not. And a lot of the time they do get it wrong. Have you ever attended a court case and read the write up the following morning?

  157. “Loki – The matter is being investigated by Police. BoB’s position is that the matter is under Plice Investigation and cannot therefore comment although the Permanent Secretary has also confirmed the fact that the cheques were altered.”

    Ah, OK. That makes sense. I thought I was going nuts because people were referring to Liskar and BOB’s confirmation of the facts, and yet I was sure that I hadn’t seen anything from either party.

  158. CO, they had to expect to get caught out. Otherwise they would have done something more subtle than faking a check – as I’ve said anyone smart enough to be able to modify the checks and get them into the files is smart enough to know that a few minutes with bank records would prove them false.

    And if anyone wanted to pay bribes doing it via checks issued in Bermuda and made out to individuals is not the way to go about it. I’d expect to find things like reinvoicing etc. all of which happened outside of Bermuda.

    So we’re still left with the question of who changed the checks and why? That’s not obvious. Hopefully the police investigation will find some answers (although I’m not holding my breath – we still don’t know who mailed the bullet to EFB).

  159. How did duplicate cheques end up in the said file… I thought that the bank kept all cheques on file these days.

    The four issues simplified, IMO:

    The kick-back pay-off by cheque premise is questionable; nobody is that stupid.

    The modified cheques scenario is also questionable; how could someone change the payee names and not damage the check making it very obvious what was done?

    The duplicate cheques theory is much more interesting from a conspiracy point of view; how could anyone get duplicate cheques printed as exact copies, with the same serial numbers as the originals, on someone else’s account, without going through the bank and doing it illegally?

    Maybe the dup cheques were photocopies… also too obvious from the paper they would have been printed on.

    MMMMmmmmm….

  160. Oh!… one more issue; the amounts that the cheques were made out for, IMO, are way too small to be authentic kick-backs to these lot.

  161. Remember, 130 checks at $100…wonder where they are for goods and services?

    Spider Man is still clothed in silk.

  162. I don’t understand. Could someone kindly explain to me how civil servants would have access to these documents/checks if they are locked up like “Fort Knox”?

  163. Quite simple, misinformation. Lets be fare, it’s just an agenda and I am sure the police can handle it. But one has to consider the usage of the word handle. It’s a game that people play.

  164. quite simple…this whole thing is some kind of red herring…..another distractionary tacktic….another self generated sympathy ploy created to distract the people from some other goins on perhaps. Like the bullet in the mail that never was and like the staged attack with senator “law breaker” dill gettin beaten up…..let c if this so called investigation yields the proof like the other so called investigations were supposed to….

    what a joke!

  165. wow. innocent until proven guilty means nothing any more, does it?

    I understand loki’s healthy skepticism, but these outright accusations, based on… well, nothing, really… are mind blowing.

    All this hate for the PLP and Dr. Brown, I’m finding it easier and easier to believe that someone WAS trying to set them up!

  166. Where the hell are you comming from UE?

    You put tagets on shirts in an election period. I still can’t fathom your retoric here. Mabe self healing, I don’t now.

  167. once again 4 elvis benifit….no government transparency = the foundation of their own demise.

    until the transparancey legislation is in play no government in this system can or should be trusted…..unless one is retarded and not a student of bermudas corrupt political history that is.

    They deserve all the bad pres they get as a result of not being transparent.

  168. Rummy, I have no idea what you’re talking about. Are you making an accusation? What “retoric” {sic}? I thought what I said was quite clear.

    SoO, you made accusations based on your opinion, not facts. Lack of transparency does NOT equal automatic guilt. You said “another self generated sympathy ploy created to distract the people from some other goins on perhaps. Like the bullet in the mail that never was and like the staged attack with senator “law breaker” dill gettin beaten up”. Do you have any FACTS on this, or is it just another assumption?

    Based on your comments, I’m finding it less and less difficult to see how someone would try to frame them. That’s all I’m saying.

  169. Son of O – Your accusations get more and more ridiculous. As somebody who spoke to Senator Dill immediately following his assault I am personally offended by your suggestion that it was fabricated. For what purpose? From what I hear you have quite the record of rolling up on people yourself.

    In any event, backing up your sweeping statements would be a nice change… Corruption, corruption, blah blah blah… Show and prove. Or perhaps. Put up, or shut up. These allegations in the absence of tangible evidence are getting really old.

  170. I have to agree with SoO and others… Why is the plp government so reluctant to introduce FOI legislation?! They talk about it, yet do nothing. Why are they so unwilling to govern in the light of day? Why are they so secretive? In their committees and elsewhere, rarely even returning phone calls? They don’t offer us a published agenda of what they are gonna discuss in Parliament, or what legislation they are gonna introduce, or what their plans are… shit, we are not even told when the House meets!

    Therefore, any thoughtful person would surmise that the plp gov’t MUST have something to hide… likely a lot to hide. What other reasonable response could there possibly be, plp apologists…??

    Further… I am now told by a very reliable source that the civil servants, who are supposed to unravel all this stuff and issue the prerequisite press releases, do not believe that the cheques were planted by a third party. Privately, they’re admitting that they believe that EB and DB arranged for the cheques to be planted….

  171. Starman,

    I think you could be charged with plagarism. You’ve almost exactly what Vexed Bermoothes wrote on Friday, February 6th, or are you one in the same?

    Vexed Bermoothes – Friday, February 6, 2009

    The House of Assembly is meeting today.
    Who knew?
    No public schedule is published of meetings of either the House or the Senate. No agendas are published for either. And no detailed Hansard minutes are ever made public. Attendance records are not published, nor are voting records. Even our expensive (but normally off the air) government CITV can’t be bothered to broadcast the proceedings!
    It’s like some kind of secret boys club.
    And they complain about apathy in the community?! Bermudians have low respect for their parliamentarians because no-one knows what they do! They are apathetic because their involvment in public issues is actively dissuaded.

  172. Starman – A couple of points. I would like to see FOI/PATI legislation introduced. I believe that open and transparent government is necessary. Part of the issue here I think, is… well… nobody was calling for that type of legislation under the UBP Government. Juvenile? Maybe. Progressive government? Definitely not. I think that the electorate as well as our elected officials need to mature, demand more, etc.

    Ummm… doesn’t the house meet on Fridays? I thought that was pretty common knowledge. To just assume that the Government has something to hide because certain legislation hasn’t been enacted is… well… a bit like saying that you must beat your wife because there isn’t proof that you don’t. I think that the Government has dragged their heels. Remember, the prevous Premier (Alex Scott) was in support of PATI legislation. He has sincewhich been replaced due to internal leadership challenges. The present leader chalks certain thinks up to ‘plantation questions’, and I have a hunch that PATI/FOI falls under this umbrella. Not necessarily because there is anything to hide, but because these are questions that were not asked of the previous government.

    Recongnizing that the term ‘civil servants’ refers to a number of individuals, some of whome I’m sure have differing opinions on ‘whodunnit’. I have yet to hear one good reason as to why Derek Burgess and Ewart Brown would fake this whole stunt. Sympathy? Is anybody really even listening!?

  173. Good to see Burch change his tone on increasing BHC rents. There is hope under the PLP!
    Good to see the Premeir focus on hotels blacks cannot make it in international business it is too technical for the masses. Overtime will have to be outlawed to make this profitable.
    The real estate market is down 30% How does people who own houses feel about the lack of government performance to change this? Will they swing vote back to UBP in the next election?
    Brown has cemented his grassroots support with this Sally Basset Monument. Whites shouldn’t be offended when politicans cant perform they cry race and it works. This incites youngsters to rob foreigners brace yourselves for more crime. wher is the race debate on this page.
    My theory is similiar to the reparations debate in the UK.
    Arab raped Africa. African rulers sold slaves to fight civil wars.
    Skinny little white men on ships were sold slave for guns.
    In Dahomey they used to tie up six explorers to stakes and cook up the rest of the crew and eat them. Releasing the survivors to sail back home in terror.
    The Pope then declared the Jesuits to saved african cannibals from their pagan customs, racism was born. Weak little countries up the coast became easy prey for the Middle Passage. This forum is to small for biblographies.

  174. LVF – Thank you for your post. And furthermore, the House of Assembly meetings are open to the general public. And again, it’s pretty common knowledge that the house meets on Fridays. To refer to it as some sort of ‘secret boys club’ couldn’t be further off the mark. That would indicate that all of our politicians, Opposition-members included, are hell-bent on pulling the wool over our eyes.

    Vexed Bermoothes post is completely pointless and nonsensical, not to mention factually incorrect.

  175. Why would EB & DB plant fake cheques in the W&E files…? And then ask the police to “thoroughly investigate?” C’mon! There is no love lost between EB-DB and Larry Dennis! Maybe they are trying to “pay him back” for raising the issue in the first place, by attempting to show there is nothing to his suspicions as it all was a a frame-up by plp haterz. Or maybe EB-DB had the cheques planted to cover up, or perhaps divert our attention away from some other truth they do not want disclosed. Aren’t the Brits supposed to hold a Commission of Inquiry here like they’re currently doing in TCI…? Lots of juicy stuff, and apparent Bermuda tie-ins, being revealed down there about Brown’s good pal Mike Misick! Like they say, birds of a feather….

  176. The present leader chalks certain thinks up to ‘plantation questions’, and I have a hunch that PATI/FOI falls under this umbrella. Not necessarily because there is anything to hide, but because these are questions that were not asked of the previous government.

    Casual Observer,

    From a different perspective, the reason the UBP were not asked for an open government is because when they were in power just over 10 years ago, open government was a relatively new idea. Sometimes we need to realize the world is changing and we must change with the times. The argument that “we don’t have to do it because they didn’t” is NOT valid. The world is a different place now.

  177. Sara – I’m not disputing that… which is why I say that the electorate as well as our politicians need to mature. That said though, I do not believe that the current Government with the present leader are in any rush to institute said legislation because of the fact that the UBP was not subject to such scrutiny. Much of the rest of the world has evolved, at least on the pretence of open government, however we seem to be stuck in the same rut.

    Starman – I’m not so sure. In his interview in the Sun, the Governor is quoted as saying “”There is nothing comparable going on in Bermuda compared to what’s happening in Turks and Caicos… Things only get that bad if the institutions are not working properly. There is a depth to the politics in Bermuda, which is perhaps lacking in Turks and Caicos.””

  178. Sara et al – And for the record, a quick look into the history of open government and freedom of information legislation reveals that this both is and isn’t such a new concept as we might think with many countries adopting this legislation as early as the ’60s.

    US – 1966
    Denmark & Norway – 1970
    France & Netherlands – 1978
    Australia, Canada, New Zealand – 1982
    Ireland, Thailand – 1997
    South Korea – 1998
    UK – 2000
    Japan – 2002
    Germany – 2005

    It seems to be an evolving concept, albeit not a new one. I’m sure the standard varies country to country in terms of what that legislation actually entails and how much information this really gives the public access to. Case in point, the People’s Republic of China passed such legislation in 2007.

    To be perfectly honest, I cannot remember calls for FOI/PATI type legislation under the UBP Government. I was too young to be interested in such things. That said, has that much really changed in a decade in terms of our expectations of Government? Or are different people asking for answers?

  179. The fact that so many plp apologists are so quick to say “well the UBP did the same things” proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that abdicating responsibility for one’s own actions or inactions is still alive and well within the plp… after ten years!

  180. I think it’s more that not everybody’s aware that Parliament’s back on session as they had been on a winter break. The flip side of that is that you can say that the people who are interested in Parliamentary goings-on would make themselves aware of it and those who don’t give a crap will just continue. Mind you, if you poll ten random people on the street today and ask them when the House’s next meeting I would wager the majority would say ‘no idea’.

    What Vexed may be calling for is for information about Parliament as well as transcripts, to be available for viewing by the public. Perhaps not everybody is on-island or otherwise unavailable to attend the session or listen to what’s said (and may not wish to read the Gazette reports of it because of potential selective reporting).

    Secret-boys-network? Yeah that’s on the edge of sensationalist, at least. I don’t think that Government’s trying to hide the fact that they have public meetings from, well, the public.

  181. What is factually incorrect in Vexed’s post? Vexed post is 100% accurate.

    Parliament does not meet on Fridays. It meets on *some* Fridays. Friday’s session was held with no advance notice after the Christmas break. One reporter I bumped into that day didn’t even know the House was in as they hadn’t been notified.

    Bermuda’s parliament is a relic. The PLP try to keep it as lightly used as possible it seems because it gives the Opposition a platform and an ability to probe deeper into issues, although they are mis-using the rules to avoid basic accountability with a weak Speaker in place.

  182. So your saying that the Opposition are not aware nor up to date on the funtions and or requirements of the House of Assembly?

    Well, I won’t be voting UBP again. I better read the openning hours at the Bank of Bermuda. Mabe they open to white out and send cheques to the Public Works Department.

  183. “So your saying that the Opposition are not aware nor up to date on the funtions and or requirements of the House of Assembly?”

    WTF Rummy?

    I said that the PLP don’t like to be in Parliament because it is somewhere where the UBP have almost equal access to the megaphone and have legislated tools they can employ to try and get answers that they cannot get outside of Parliament?

    That is, by definition, what Parliaments are for. Brown doesn’t like oversight or even being questioned, so they go to parliament as infrequently as possible and when they do usually use parliamentary privilege to libel people.

  184. so IF these attention grabbing events “happened” the bullet in the mail to brown and the dill “beating” where are the public updates into these events?….that was the question @ observer…..no need to get ya green n white plp boxer shorts in a knot @ CO…lol

    PS …yes hes a law breaker based on how he broke the broadcast comissions regulations during the time of the election via the plp network and was rewarded with a an honary senate seat. What does he do to earn his pay in the senate anyway…?

    They were very quick to go to the media to inform the public on these events when they first happened (for whatever ulterior motive)….why is askin for an equally public update on these “crimes” such an out of the ordinary thing to ask for….IF they did indeed happen.

    So who have I supposed to have rolled up on?

    Again…if a government does not follow the directions of its people as far as implamentation of reforms….if they do not implament FOI and transparency…that in itself is corruption. If theree is nothing to hide then doing the peoples bidding and reforming the system to bring in transparancy shouldnt be an issue or a problem or take years to put into effect.

    The argument that the people never asked for “this n that” unda the UPB adminsitration, is a brain dead argument, that only reflects the stupidity of the people who use it, and their own personal commitment to wanting the status quo across the board to remain…all things do and will change….especially as our younger generations return from overseas scholling after being exposed to real democratic societies.

    So as long as they resist…..they are corrupt elvis. this is my view….so attack me if u choose.

    I agree wit educated pig…..good to hear the about face on public housing….I was begining to wonder what the hell was tha minista was thinkin when the announcement was first made. @ least there appears to be a little more hope for the many Bermudians who are homeless….in the time of global depression.

    Sally baseet….hmmmmm while its nice to acknowledge the ancestors on black history month…. I view this ceremony done on a full moon as a double edged sword….

    Slavery the hightly emotional issue that black people have still not healed from…combined with the emotional influence of the full moon….combined with the dark spirit filled time of yr this is…(winter time..the death cycle) = unhealed black people being directed to enduldge their emotions and make a connection to a figure who was accused of killing whites….not a very good PR image for a government who is saying they want to heal the race divide. All while keeping the focus and blame on slavery on whites while ignoring the historical facts that arabs played a much bigger role.

    This could have been another opportunity to heal the nation. But again lack of vision.

    Stuff like this keeps blacks…let me not say blacks….keeps african decendants in bermuda focused on the pain of slavery….its oh so sad that we seem to forget that our culture spands back hundreds of thousands of yrs b4 the transtalantic slave trade…..

    Pigs comments on the side effects are correct…it only inspires a neew generation to hate…..now if they included traditional african spiritual input with the perspective to calm the restless spirit of ancestor sally….that would have placed an entirely different tone on the event.

    This is why this black government refused to bring in multi cultural educational reforms…cause that will hale to heal school goers of racism and the mental complex of slavery…you would think that our only history is slavery the way some african desendents go on about it…but so it go.

    Perhaps the traditional african spiritual community can go on cabinet grounds after dark and make some offerings to the restless spirit of sally…. and take care of this side of things to ease up the dark spirits that are running wild currently.

  185. Comments were made about knowone being aware of the Friday House meeting and or it is common knowledge that it is. I thinnk Casual Observer covered it quite well.

    As for the PLP “don’t like to be in Parliament” then why the hell are they there? Your emotions speak volumes.

  186. ive been in parlimanet many times…ive seen nuff of dem sleeping in de chairs..on many occasions…so apparently they dont wanna be there. n thats y its not on TV…lol think of the public out cry if people can actually see them sleepin in the seats…lmao

  187. SoO, are you sure your not the infamous Smoking Guns twin? History is what it is. Tomorrows chapter wil be written but like others we will not be there to read it.

  188. When did I attack you, SoO? If you think questioning whether your opinions (presented as facts, I must add) were based on facts is an attack, you got some growing up to do.

  189. The Truth Said, ” I said that the PLP don’t like to be in parliament when the UBP have equal access to megaphone.

    I can think of many senarios that would make you think like this.

    Define Libel in your context

    I think “The Truth” speaks for itself.

    You seem to have some hard and fast deep rooted feelings. I suggest a member of the clergy or a bottle of wine for redemtion or whatever your looking for.

  190. all this back and fourth about corruption can be solved once n for all very simply……. if cabinet ministers allowed the people 2 see their bank accounts. To prove they are not makin money via their politicial appointments outside of their public pay for their service to the people.
    Other so called less developed nations to our south have done this n its proved to be quite effective to uncover corruption.

    This is also a part of transparancy.

  191. “Define Libel in your context”

    In my context? Libel is quite well defined as a matter of law. In fact a speech in Parliament is slander not libel, but they’re both defamation.

    Ask the Auditor about being defamed behind Parliamentary Privilege? Derrick Burgess has done it twice now (once during the Berkeley fiasco, and again recently over the Courthouse).

    Every time they call someone a racist they’re defaming someone.

    Then there is Brown’s threat of physical violence against Grant Gibbons which is a whole different matter indeed in a speech littered with unsubstantiated allegations.

    As to your other comments Rummy, I am neither emotional, in need of religion or to medicate through liquor.

    I’m fact based, you’re just doing your usual shtick.

  192. Son of O – Since when do assaults on private citizens, particularly in the case of Senator Dill necessitate public updates? Terry Lister was assaulted a few months back while walking in the railway trail and there was no public update provided on that. Perhaps you should inquire with the Senator directly as to the outcome of the investigation. I’m pretty sure he would be more than happy to advise where it stands – rather than writing it off as a hoax because you haven’t read an update in the RG.

    The Truth – Vexed Bermoothes post suggests that the public are unaware of when the HoA meets. That is false. Furthermore, these meetings are open to the public. The public are not forced into apathy, most of us would just rather bitch and moan on computers all day instead of getting more involved.

    The politicians do not make for an apathetic public, the public make for piss poor politicians through our own apathy.

  193. “Vexed Bermoothes post suggests that the public are unaware of when the HoA meets. That is false.”

    That is not false. The public know the House meets on Fridays when in session, but there was no announcement that the House was back in session after the recess, no agenda was announced/published.

    The point about apathy is that the lack of information that comes out of the house makes it harder for the public to engage in the process.

    That being said, I would agree that the onus is on the public to get more involved. But the controlling of information is designed to restrict the ability to see inside and allow the politicians the greatest amount of power with the least amount of oversight.

  194. Why for example, is Parliament not broadcasted on CITV when the Government film themselves doing everything else? Surely CITV could fill their mostly empty space with this? Is it because politicians don’t want video of a) the lack of attendance b) their sneering back and forth and c) a public/press able to watch what they’re up to.

    Why are there no transcripts? Why is the normal 2 weeks window for orders to sit on the agenda to allow the Opposition and public time to prepare being waved constantly?

    It’s because while most will still be apathetic it acts as a check on unrestrained power.

    The one thing I would support CITV for would be broadcasting Parliamentary sessions, sub-committees, public hearings.

    I suspect that won’t happen. Press conferences and ribbon cuttings are a much more controlled environment to manipulate the images and exclude Oppositions who don’t have the ability to use taxpayer resources to fund their political profiling.

  195. Sounds like “The Truth” is the spokesperson for Vexed Bermoothes on Catch A Fire. Or are “The Truth” and “Vexed Bermoothes” one in the same person?

    First of all, the Press is notified each time Pariament reconvenes. Secondly, one only has to attend a sitting to obtain an agenda. Thirdly, one only has to request minutes. Additionally, the minutes are gazetted. This is no difference than what has happened in the past.

    I did hear Dame Jennifer Smith, Chair of the House & Grounds Committee last week when she talked about her committee looking into having a Hansard for house sittings. I guess the Royal Gazette reporter wasn’t present at that time, or missed the Dame’s remarks.

    Anyone who has watched CITV knows that there is much more televised that Press Conferences. But aren’t press conferences the way all poiticians get out their message? Even President Obama uses press conferences.

  196. Mrs Furbert… ever heard of C-Span? There is no logical reason why CITV cannot broadcast the proceedings in the House, IMO. Why won’t they do it…?

  197. The Verne,

    “aren’t press conferences the way all poiticians get out their message”

    To suggest a “politician’s message” equals open access to information is either naive or disingenuous. They are very different. Politicians are selective in what they present to push their political agenda and personal profile. Open Government and Public Access to Information involve access to raw data, unfiltered statistics and information presented outside of the political arena.

    I would suggest to you that if the UBP were the Government you would take a different view on relying on press statements with no access to underlying data. And you’d be right. You simply are an unrepentent partisan, a true believer. That’s your choice, but you suffer from what is known as ‘situational ethics’.

    The chronic misrepresentation of tourism results under Brown is the most glaring example of why you can’t trust a politician’s message. The baseline for reporting stats changes quarterly to put the best spin on it.

    But you know that.

    PS Why does CITV cut off the press conference broadcasts after the official statement to exclude the followup questions from journalists?

  198. C-SPAN (officially, the Cable-Satellite Public Affairs Network) is an American cable television network dedicated to airing non-stop coverage of government proceedings and public affairs programming. C-SPAN does not accept advertising from external entities, and the only commercials are for its own shows or videos for sale from their website.

    C-SPAN’s chairman and CEO, conceived of C-SPAN while working at Cablevision, a cable industry trade magazine, as their Washington D.C. bureau chief. C-SPAN was created as a cable-industry financed, non-profit network for televising sessions of the U.S. Congress and other public affairs event and policy discussions. Bob Rosencrans, a cable industry pioneer, was alone in providing the initial seed funding of $25,000 to start up C-SPAN.[1] It receives no funding from any government source, has no contract with the government, and does not sell sponsorships or advertising. It strives for neutrality and a lack of bias in its public affairs programming.

  199. So we’re clear then that CITV and C-SPAN are completely different.

    One is Government funded and controlled and the other is indpendently run and funded and strives for neutrality.

    Glad we cleared that up.

  200. Also proves that some here will go out of their way to discredit anyone, yet when confronted with facts, still attack the messenger.

    Clowns and very angry people who seem to have more chips than the bag can hold.

  201. Personally, I would love to see sessions in the house broadcast on CITV. I also think that the attendance/voting in the House should be made readily accessible to the public via this or another medium… It strikes me though that this is an initiative that the Opposition could and should be spearheading if they are genuinely interested in accountability and transparency. Why not start with who shows up and does what…

  202. Don’t know what the poor ol’ UBP are gonna do… IMO Kim Swan ain’t cuttin’ it as their leader. They need to appoint another leader with a little more chutzpah and quick wit on their feet. Or fold up. As they say… either lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!

  203. Well, I wonder which party you support Starman. The UBP have been the backbone of this island since it’s inception. The PLP have been the backbone. Not a word mentioned about the NLP who I think brought more too the table in bi-partisan works than others.
    “lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way”.?

    What a statement. They have lead, they have followed and they have not gotten out of the way only because of good and ethical governance which can be debated until the second comming.

    The voters spoke at the last election so mabe you should re-read the numbers.

    To disband en mass would relieve themselves of all hard work for the people of Bermuda.

    Whom would fill this void?

    Just another bunch of wanna bee’s who can’t tell the differance between a dollar bill and a seashell resting on an unspoiled beach.

  204. CO…

    Have you ever watched the UK parliament? At times, it’s like the back room of a pub at closing time, but with plush seating and everyone in suits!

    Be careful what one wishes for!!

  205. Forget about corruption for one moment if a politican was invovled with money laundering for a drug dealer a fact how would he stop this from coming out. Maybe prescribe him with an overdose of medication to sedate him to death. Sure someone would find out. My point, people know who is dirty in politics and they don’t need know police to believe them. If you have never seen a politican do dirt don’t think other people havent. The people you stole from know you are a crook. my question is , are you on heroin? We all make mistakes just fix them.

  206. Are there legal impediments to broadcasting on TV (government-run or otherwise) the sessions and if so are they difficult to overturn?

  207. There are no legal impediments, just ancient House rules.

    Parliament has already in fact been broadcast on TV, but only ceremonial…most notably when Eugene Cox passed I believe. Why it is important to broadcast ceremonial events but not the substantive business of the people should confirm the cynical motives behind it all.

    Video is a powerful medium that the politicians like, but on their terms when they control the mic.

    There is no impediment other than a lack of political will.

    But times have changed. Bermuda’s Parliament has not. We can protest that “the UBP didn’t do it” all we want, but that doesn’t change the fact that it needs to be done.

    How can a Government demand higher scrutiny of the business sector that it regulates than of itself?

    It is a farce.

    I often marvel at the disdain we are all supposed to hold that vile Colonial Britain in, yet they are far more progressive, far more accountable, far more democratic than those who profess to be so much more enlightened than them.

    At the end of the day, in a place like TCI, as much as Misick wanted to talk about the British condescending attitude towards the Islands, it will take the colonial overlord to make them adopt the most basic levels of internationally accepted modern good governance.

    Ironic isn’t it.

  208. The Truth, it’s not ironic in the least. Their getting caught. Now here in Bermuda we stand on our own two feet and become Bus Boys.

  209. starman n truth….spot on about CITV.

    open access is promised under the freedome of information act. They are stalling on bringing the legilsation. Simple as that…and the longer they stall.. the more the thinking people in this island who aint a plp or ubp blind loyalist, with an ounce of commonsence… whos been away to college , who have degrees, and have lived in countries with more effective systems of government, that are much more open and transparent….

    In other words this aint the country of our great and great great grand parents any more, and we have developed as a nation since then. The laws and systemic operations(WEST MINISTER) of this country have not been updated to first world nation status.

    We are not STUPID….when we have legitimate concerns and questions….we tax payers should get answers…simple as that.
    Freedom of information means… it will all be there for the public to observe

    The message of the obama campaign was political and systemic change to help the people. Thats how her got in…cause people were tired of the system as it was run by bush……

    The people were tired of the how the ubp were running the system and voted in the plp, based on their promises to change this system.

    10 yrs have passed…not much has changed with the system, and their promises they made to the grass roots people remain unfulilled.

    And PLP supporters are now calling tax payers questions about how their money is being spent by this government, plantation questions…what the fuck is a plantation question?

    Ms furbert i heard you on the radio today……y are you threatinging people who have a dfferent opinion than you on pubic radio. That lady..woman…whatever… should demand a copy of the peoples show tape from thurs feb 12 2009 with host everest decosta.
    And take it to a lawyer. You are attempting to violate peoples constitutional right to free speech. Political terrorism….otherhave already called you tha gastapo

    do u have any shares in the mythical or real trust ms furbert…does jullian hall? who else? ?? ? ? ? ? ?

    FReedom of information act would have preventied this mess from happening in the first place @ PLP.

    CO…. they are not private citizens they are public officials. These are serious charges and they were broadcast to the people via the plp radio station. Criminal n capital offences in the case of this bullet in the mail. What im saying its not unheard of using tactics like this to distract the voters…anyways…

    Lets go the the uk and make them bring bermuda up to 21 century operations by disbanning political parties and make bermuda a bottom up run democratic uk colony

    and lets look into politicians personal finances to ensure they are not benifiting illegally or unethically…like countries in the caribbean who are more advanced than bermuda is in this specific area….they make sure the people cant accuse them of corruption, and if they are found guilty, there is accountability.

    The Poor Peoples Party will bring accountability and real change to this system in Bermuda.

  210. Son of Obatala,

    “and lets look into politicians personal finances to ensure they are not benifiting illegally or unethically…like countries in the caribbean who are more advanced than bermuda is in this specific area….they make sure the people cant accuse them of corruption, and if they are found guilty, there is accountability.”

    Which countries in particular are you referring to? Before you answer, remember that many Caribbean countries have income tax regimes, which means that income needs to reported to ensure proper tax are paid. I can tell you that in the Bahamas, Cayman and Turks & Caicos outside of maybe convicted drug dealers/shippers/distributors there is no requirement for anyone to provide their personal banking information because these jurisdiction do not have income tax regimes.

    I am all for open and complete transparency and have always been a supporter of a move to a progressive tax system for Bermuda because the current system is clearly regressive but be careful what you ask for when you want discloser of income because in order for it to be fair it has to be done across the board.

  211. “Ms furbert i heard you on the radio today……y are you threatinging people who have a dfferent opinion than you on pubic radio. That lady..woman…whatever… should demand a copy of the peoples show tape from thurs feb 12 2009 with host everest decosta.
    And take it to a lawyer. You are attempting to violate peoples constitutional right to free speech. Political terrorism….otherhave already called you tha gastapo”

    You’re funny!!!

  212. Mrs Furbert… Would you please explain what you mean in your LTE in today’s Bermuda Sun, where you write near the end of your letter about alleged corruption here, “I think it’s time that somebody in Bermuda shone the light of exposure on guest workers who make up reasons to stay in Bermuda under the guise of saving our environment.”

    Thank you.

  213. “I think it’s time that somebody in Bermuda shone the light of exposure on guest workers who make up reasons to stay in Bermuda under the guise of saving our environment.”

    Laverne, I really think you should expand on this one.

  214. “I don’t get it. Sorry. Anyone else…?”

    Apparently, unrelenting and crude sarcasm of a type that wouldn’t seem out of place in a fourteen year old girl’s email inbox amounts to ‘satire’. And doesn’t satire have to at least try to be amusing?

  215. Son of Obatala,

    While I have no issue with you disagreeing with what a poster says or what they say on radio or anywhere else, however, I find it extremely inappropriate and disrespectful to say things like: “and your quite disturbed…people are watching your actions” while hiding behind a pen name.

    I very much doubt you would say such things if you were face to face with LaVerne. I very much doubt if you would say half the things you say if you were not hiding behind your veil of secrecy.

    My view is this, disagreeing with someone from behind a pen name is ok but if you are going to make personal attacks on the person you should at least come from behind your veil of secrecy before doing so. No matter what you feel about the person there should still be a level of respect and common decency and if you can’t be decent at least take personal responsibility for your words and actions.

  216. Guilden,

    I guess he thinks he can frighten me into silence me, both on talk radio and on the blogs. He says the woman on the radio yesterday should take me to court. That shows how convuluted his mind is. The woman said some very nasty things about Members of the PLP and then had the nerve to accuse me of having a crush on “Ewart Brown” even though his name never came up in the conversation. She by the way said she was the daughter of a former UBP Member of Parliament and that her father would never think of doing the corrupt things that members of the PLP are doing. Yeah, he’s right, she should see her lawyer. I don’t know what he considers a threat, but I don’t think anyone would agree with him that I threatened the woman/lady.

  217. LaVerne,

    I have a serious problem with people who make personal attacks while hiding behind a veil of secrecy. Disagreement is one thing but when you make personal attacks you need to take responsibility for them and you canot do that behind a pen name.

    Son of Obatala seems to have decided to participate in these blogs and be critical of the PLP simply because his proposal under EEZ was rejected. I have a gut feeling he was a PLP supporter and voted PLP in the last election, however, because he is black he feels he has been cheated by a black Government who he feels should give him whatever he asks for simply because he is black. Maybe his proposal simply was not viable enough to receive the required funding and he cannot accept that reality so he decides he will lash out at the PLP as his way of vengence, which is kind of juvenile to me.

  218. I trusted comments here but when I read LaVernes letter it stated that Stewart Hayward had it right”. Amazing how that part was left out.

    It is also noteworthy that in times of econommic crisis the swords are at the ready but the pen rumbles when looking for ink.

  219. “I think it’s time that somebody in Bermuda shone the light of exposure on guest workers who make up reasons to stay in Bermuda under the guise of saving our environment.”

    I guess I don’t know the background behind your statement… so I don’t understand it, or the supposed satire within it. Are you saying that you don’t believe Bermuda needs environmentalists to help protect our most important natural resource, the beauty and tranquility of our Island? Or are you saying that we just don’t need “guest worker” environmentalists…? Please enlighten me.

  220. Starman,

    LaVerne can correct me if I am wrong but there was a time, not too long ago, and maybe still today, that many guest workers who were looking for Bermuda Status would use entities like the Bermuda National Trust and KBB to “show” how mcuh they cared about Bermuda and to help justify why they should be granted status. It looked good on their resume so to speak. Amazingly for a large percentage of these persons, as soon as they received their status they ceased their volunteer work with BNT and KBB. In otherwords, they really did not have a concern for Bermuda’s environment, their concern was how they could remain in Bermuda.

    I hope this helps.

  221. Guilden, you are spot on!! There are some people in this community who say they care about the environment and join organisations like BNT, KBB, BZS, and BEST,for ulterior motives.

    Starman, of course I believe Bermuda needs environmentalists. My son is an environmentalist.

  222. We really should be grateful to our guest workers, particularly many of their wives who cannot work, for contributing so much of their time & energy to hundreds of Bermuda charities. Many charities would be in trouble if it weren’t for our guest workers. No matter what their reasoning may be.

  223. Of course, we’re grateful to the guest workers who contribute to the betterment of our community. Many charities would be in trouble if it wasn’t for Bermudians who support them as well. Let’s not give all the praise to guest workers. Many of contribute to charities, either financially and in other ways.

  224. I would just like to say that I was amused to read on Sucks the contents of a post entitled ”join the PLP and get your info straight”. It makes me smile because with these guys it is the same old thing, we who are supporters of the PLP are not harsh enough on the PLP for its failings. They say I have been critical of the PLP at times but my criticism has not been harsh enough. Funny because the last time I check I thought for myself and my thoughts were not determined by anyone but me.

    The post was created by SmokingGun who continues with his flip flopping regarding me. When I posted on Limey in Bermuda my disgust at Col. Burch’s use of house ni**er SmokingGun was my big supporter and his support of me grew even bigger when at his prompting I submitted the post as a letter to the editor. This is someone who said at the time that if I came home and ran for office he would support me. Funny though because as soon as I say something he disagrees with he make a 180 degree turn and I am the worst person in the world. Just goes to show that in politics you have to look at the overall position of the person before you offer your support.

    Essentially for what we feel as just cause, a few of us like-minded posters have collective decided to no longer post on Sucks because when me state our positions we are constantly asked for evidential support of our positions, the fact that we have experiences means nothing. On the otherhand these guys can take and express whatever view and position they want and because they all agree with each other there is no request for the same evidential support.

    I guess because I have made it very clear that I will no longer participate on that site they feel that them merely mentioning my name and speaking of me in derogatory terms will cause me to post, well as I know they read this blog let m leave them with a quote, “Your tactics will not work!!!”

    The site has now become as I predicted, a site where everyoen is in total agreement regarding politics in Bermuda and while they may use different words they al say the same thing. Due to their tactics they have caused persons with opposing views to leave the site as a group so now there is no longer any debate that occurs on this site.

    Just so they know, they can say what they wish about me, my positions have been made very clear since the very first letter to the editor I wrote back in 1990 and they can either accept that my positions are my positions and I can and have defended my positions or they do not accept my positions. Either way it matters not to me because I have never been one to take my positions and make them known in an effort to appease anyone else.

  225. It is perhaps a shame that Ms Furbert did not add a caveat in her letter. When one uses a generalisation such as ‘guest workers’, one can be left with the impression that it is meant to refer to all guest workers.

    Ms Furbert is partly right, there are of course guest workers who do just what she suggests. There are of course others who ‘say’ they do, and also ‘do’.

    We must not forget them, as without them – and their Bermudian colleagues – many charities would not see the light of day as Ms Furbert rightly points out.

  226. I don’t think anyone was saying that ONLY guest workers who support these programs.. well, I did, but only in jest.

    I think it was just an observation that guest workers and their non-working spouses DO give something back to the community, an observation in response to Lt. Col. Burch’s statements in the paper, which, while the frustration he’s feeling is completely understandable, seem a little drastic.

  227. Martin,

    I wholeheartedly agree that there are many guest workers and their spouse who are very happy to participate in community service organisations and Bermuda is all the better for it. The fact remains, however, that there are numerous cases where once status is given these persons disappear from these organisations.

    As Elvis allued to Bermudians need to become more involved in these service organisations for the betterment of their own country.

  228. Col Burch has “hinted” that he would like to get involved in the Dept of Education. Do you think his, in my view, rather raw and arrogant “get things done” attitude would cut it over there? I believe the problem in Education is that one needs to negotiate agreement from too many people (chiefs) before one can execute one’s plans… so, little seems to get done. Yet Education is SO VITAL to the progress of Bermuda. Patience, I guess….

  229. Star man…her sons an environmentalist….shes attempting to making space for bermudian environmentalist to that the jobs of foreigners.
    Nothing wrong with that cause qualified bermudians have to work first
    But instead of doing this in a above board manner that would help all Bermudian job hunters who happen to specalise in a particular field she just lookin to get her son specifically a job apparently

    Col burch needs to do this, perhaps one of u lot with his email can pass this onto him:
    in this time of increased potential of job losses…..overeas workers will have to realise that qualified bermudians will come first, and your permits will be ended right away and u get some economic assistance to get back to ya own country, if it means a Bermudians can work based on the economic situation.
    The employment act will be followed to the letter in ALL jobs, including regulated standards of pay in the various job categories, ensure that the wages of workers outlined on a contract bid are actually paid to the workers. Many companies give quotes based on paying the wages as outlined in the employment act…IE>>>.overtime pay etc etc. And they pay the workers in straight time and pocket the profits………..thats fraud!
    And the BIU and the PLP has known of this…..and nothing gets said or done to fix it….hundreds of companies breaking the law, and saving millions…..thats corruption.

  230. you forget that every generation has its revolutionaries, and we have been researching the strggle from the perspective of the revolutionary….thoese of u that were black freedom fighters…black berets….now a lot of you are in positions of politicial power and n have sold out…….you have back stabbed thoese who were in your same revolutionalry ranks and were not down wit you lots vision…and blocked them from working in their fields. phil perienchief…harrel darrel etc.

    Whats new ms furbert?….apparently this new you….. the revolutionary turned sellout to the mans babylon system…..yes people are watching your actions and we are seeing a repeat of what happened to revolutionary black and white thought under the UBP system.

    Witch hunting.

    That was wrong when the ubp system went after the many now esteemed members of the plp because they supported the revolutionary side of the struggle and were anti upb…..and here you are now trying to repeat history with your personal witch hunt of people who say stuff u dont personaly like…and have taken it upon yourself to make them publically accountable….even casting blame on a ole dead woman for generating sum of ya wonderous “hate mail” you “recieve”, on talk radio today in such an obvious manner for the public at large who are in a lot of casees gullable…will then take your word that a dead woman wrote things about you, and she cant even defend herself…..if you wanna hear this audio get of copy of the everest decosta show dated feb 13 2009 from zbm.
    I personaly think you write this crap yourself Ms furbert….is was very low class thing to do to say the least, since the woman u accusing publically is dead!

    How can she defend herself?

    Who are you to try to be de moral cop? Who appointed you?

    You are attempting to use the taxpayer resources to go after private citizens who say or think the slightest thing anti plp….on line and on the public airwaves….and in printed media…..and threatening using the cops to track them down or say that
    “cops should visit your house since you seem to know something”
    this is the type of sutff that goes on in independent nations…the prelude to where any anti government speakers are “taken in the night” never to be heard from and seen again.
    where the cops come and get you for using your constitutional freedoms.
    And some how the people who have real legitimate questions about governance and accountability are being told their questions are personal attacks on the plp n honest ole doc brown.

    Another former black freedom fighter who now runs babylon and has still not enacted proper grass roots help for the people to progress in this country, as the plp constitution dictates.

    So now we the intelligent taxpayers who are asking questions about our taxpayer money since the ubp senator fey i think he name….rased the issue of the trust thing…and how much money was tied to it. How much of the peoples money is tied to it.

    So anyone asking whats goin on with de peoples money is now apparently askin good ole dr brown a “plantation question”

    This is another attempt at evading the peoples questions about our money.

    We voted the upb out to end the times of no public access to information..clear corruptions via kickbacks and issueing government contracts to mp oened companies…AKA corruption……if the people knew the full details of what was going on with their money from the start from the berkeley site, from the beginning of the hourt house…. the plp wont be faced with “plantation questions” from the taxpayers connected to its 78 million dolla “investment”

    Bob richards is sayin the governmetns broke cause of their spending and there 4 cant help the people as we join the world in the 09 global depression.

    We the people wanna know whats goin on with the money…especially in these times.

    And now they are trying to tell the people that the foi legislation will not allow the people to know whats goin on with how its money is being spent and who is recieving it.

    The un has defined that type of stuff as corruption.

    And u lot want independence?

    with these lot in control?

    wow

    All i can say the people of bermuda need to get behind the concept of systemic reforms before our money is gone.

    or maybe this is all just our paranoia from being fucked by the upb all these yrs. And if that is the case….every effort to provide clarity to ALL of the taxpayers is a responsibility of the government.

    FOI legislation applies to all instances of government activities, especially and including the use of taxpayer funds. No trust can deny access to that.

    So if u are not stealing us blind PLP…then release the information.

    So whos listed in this trust? are u ms furbert?..jullian hall?…who else ?? ? ?? Y do u have such an opposition to the people gettin accountability on whats up with their money?

    No ones trying to silence you ms furbert….you have taken up that role by attempting to abuse people with political intimidation, to silence them and thats against the constitution. The host of that show does not let people say the things u are saying when out over the air.

    He is a well respected host and dont let people talk a bunch of BS on his show. So who you tryin to fool?

    U threatned to basically stalk this woman, and invade her privacy. Thats against the law.

    Guilden….. good ting de world dont revolve round ya gut 🙂
    How about u just stick to the issues I post instead of tryin to do what ever it is u trying to do?

    Meer critisism is nothin compared to enforcing accountability and good governance and fulfilling the mandate of the plp that the founders intended for the plp and the grass roots peoples of bermuda. So more than critisism that can be taken or left unheard and ignored, is needed. @ guilden
    The plp founders intended the structure of the plp would ensure the needs of thegrass roots peoples would be adresses and that accountability via the internal chain of command would keep the party on track according to its constitution.

    That has not been happening thats y critisism is not enough.

  231. SoO,

    I just wonder about you. You’re so brave, yet you hide behind some African name as if people don’t know who you are. When you talk about freedom on information, do you think that we the people should have access to information from all government departments? Should we be told who applied for what, who didn’t get contracts and why not, who applied for financial assistance and didn’t get it, and why not, etc. etc. etc.?

    As far as my son is concerned, he doesn’t need me to make space for him, he’s making space for himself. He’s educating himself so that he can take his rightful place in the country of his birth.

    As far as Bermudian job hunters, I’ve helped many Bermudians find jobs. I would even help you, that is if you still need a job. I think I still have you resume on file.

    What do you mean by “But instead of doing this in a above board manner that would help all Bermudian job hunters who happen to specalise in a particular field she just lookin to get her son specifically a job apparently”. MY son can row his own boat, but rest assured, if he needs his mother’s assistance I’m there for him. He’s blood of my blood, flesh of my flesh. That goes for both of my sons.

  232. “When you talk about freedom on information, do you think that we the people should have access to information from all government departments? Should we be told who applied for what, who didn’t get contracts and why not, who applied for financial assistance and didn’t get it, and why not, etc. etc. etc.?”

    For the record, if I can throw my 2 cents in for a sec… that’s pretty much what I mean by freedom of information.

    SoO may not have the same definition. He SEEMS to have a “THEM, not ME” attitude with the stuff he espouses to believe in.

  233. Let’s see what the Son says. It appears that he’s had some dealings with the government. Maybe he’ll be forthcoming with his dealings and then we can make a determination. I, personally have have had no dealings with the Government, other than to get a drivers license, voters card and passport. If you all want to know those details, I’ll be happy to provide them.

  234. I get slightly concerned about the link between ‘freedom of information’ and open Govt etc.

    Just in case there are a few around who have not experienced such legislation…

    In some respects, it is nothing more than a paper tiger. Sure – you can ‘demand’ to see certain types of info, usually on payment of a fee (!)…sure, a number of public bodies will open up info that they would not have previously done so…not because they had something to hide, but because they just thought it was ‘their’ information.

    But – just in case anyone is thinking that you have access to what the Cabinet said last week…then you will probably be disappointed.

    You might find out 30 yrs after the event, as in the UK for example, but then (and only then) if the info is not classified.

    Don’t hold your breath folks!

  235. SoO,

    “Meer critisism is nothin compared to enforcing accountability and good governance and fulfilling the mandate of the plp that the founders intended for the plp and the grass roots peoples of bermuda. So more than critisism that can be taken or left unheard and ignored, is needed. @ guilden”

    And what do you propose to do to enforce accountability and good governance? How are YOU going to be involved with making the PLP fulfill its mandate. You say that more than criticism is needed, so what is needed and how will you lead the charge? You seem to like to talk and since the financing of your EEZ proposal was rejected you seem to enjoy complaining about your “plight” and as you have alleged recently, CITV is an idea that was stolen from you, what steps have you taken to correct the theft?

    Man up my brother and stand up for yourself in your own country. Take your own advice, “Meer critisism is nothin…..”

  236. CITV? my company wasnt about CITV, nor was it media related… so once again what r u talkin about?

    And as far as what im going to do….I am putting my support behind another political party….the Poor Peoples Party

  237. Um… couple things…

    a) if that wasn’t your company, which company WAS yours?

    b) The Poor Peoples Party? Does that exist anywhere but in your head? and

    c) if so care to join MY imaginary party? The People’s Revolution Against All Parties, or PRAAP (the sound of flatulence).

  238. SoO,

    It wasn’t media related? If you say so, I don’t want anymore accusations of me trying to out you so I will not comment on that any further but you and I know better.

    Poor Peoples Party and to date there are what two members, you and Educated Pig? Let me guess, your meeting location is outside Devonshire Rec.

  239. SoO,

    You know nothing of the founders of the PLP, so trying to convince people that you do. If you did, you would not continue to spout the nonsense that you spout. I knew each of those five men personally and I know that would be very happy with the PLP today. Read through the early manifestos (platform) of the PLP and show me where we have strayed. The PLP has never been just about poor people. Remember, some of the founders were professionals, i.e. Walter Robinson (Lawyer), Eddie DeJean (principal). The people has always been about giving a hand-up, not a hand-out.

    So your proposal had nothing to do with media? Just like you say people are watching me, we’ve been watching you as well. And that is not a threat!

    The Poor People’s Party!!! Are you going to be the Leader? Poor people don’t have computers!

  240. Poor people don’t have computers!

    Which explains why there are street people in the US and Canada that regularly post on other boards?

  241. Now Ralph Commisiong dont know nothing about economics because he is sitting with the elite downpressors in the PLP. How much drug money was collected at those $25,000 a plate fundraisers? Many companies have gone out of business because of Burchs assine immigration policies and Coxs government cutbacks. i know one where ten workers were laid off and have know job since xmas. Working Bermudians know we are in a full blown PLP recession. This maybe good for so members to buy a house 40% cheaper than lst year. But for others who have three or four houses remember this. The plp were given this economy on a silver platter but now after drinking champayne and taking pictures with golddigging trash like Beyonce Bermuda is now a kentucky fried chicken box!

  242. Sir John Swan has risen the price of my Status sale to $250000. This would stimulate the economy like the LOM president wants. Sell 4 that is a million more for the government to put in a secret trust dummies! Sell 40? This can pull us out of the recession.
    Another way would be to give the long term residents their status.
    Every foreigner that leaves creates unemployment for three Bermudians and deflates the economy.
    Most importantly we need a recession check for anyone on the voters registration list who doesnot have $9000 in savings. This is the poverty line established before the PLP recession last July. this can pay rent mortgages food $1500 a month for 6 months.
    That is my 3 point plan to stimulate the economy. Free of charge the Premeir looks like a lost dog last night on T.v. No brains in your Party man all yesmen that cannot stop Gombey house from devaluating can they? Fire your whole cabinet and hire me. Peace.

  243. Well since this thread has pretty much become a free for all… I thought I’d post this here:

    I just caught the Mid Ocean interview with Sir John Swan where Sir John is suggesting that we consider giving long term residency to wealthy individuals. Whilst I have never been a proponent of granting permanent residency to foreigners I do believe that in the current climate, one of our most respected elder statesmen might be onto something and this may indeed be worth considering.

    http://www.midoceannews.bm/siftology.midoceannews/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d926c730080000&sectionId=60

    Whilst I am still not in favour of granting wholesale willy nilly status to everybody, I do believe that it is a matter that should be examined.

  244. I, personally have have had no dealings with the Government, other than to get a drivers license, voters card and passport.</i?

    Do you sit on any Government Boards?

    Are you a senior employee of a union which formed a subsidiary to provide a mulit-million dollar bond for completion of the Berkeley Institute?

    Did you attend the Bermuda Music Festival as a guest of the Government in their Trophy Suite?

    As all three of these questions involve matters which are inextricably linked to the government (which in turn is financed entirely by tax payers) then I would suggest if you answer in the affirmative to any of them then your involvement goes well beyond matters of simple documetary identifcation.

  245. I have to admit, I don’t get this at all. Granted, I don’t know the inner workings of this island as no doubt JS does, but I fail to see that the plus’s will either outweigh the negatives (more cars v duty was one) or that the extra ‘spend and employment’ these people might bring is going to be that significant.

    I understand JS was arguing for a longer term view of where the island is going as distinct from a helping gesture in this recession, as we will power out of this recession in time as we have out of every other one.

    He obviously knows more about this island’s workings than I do, so he may be right.

    Even so, that doesn’t change my view.

  246. LaVerne Furbert said on February 13, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    I, personally have have had no dealings with the Government, other than to get a drivers license, voters card and passport.

    Do you sit on any Government Boards?

    Are you a senior employee of a union which formed a subsidiary to provide a multi-million dollar bond for completion of the Berkeley Institute?

    Did you attend the Bermuda Music Festival as a guest of the Government in their Trophy Suite?

    As all three of these questions involve matters which are inextricably linked to the government (which in turn is financed entirely by tax payers) then I would suggest if you answer in the affirmative to any of them then your involvement goes well beyond matters of simple documentary identification.

  247. Do you sit on any Government Boards?
    No.

    Are you a senior employee of a union which formed a subsidiary to provide a multi-million dollar bond for completion of the Berkeley Institute?
    No, I am not a senior employee of a union, I make no decisions. I am an administrative assistant/secretary. Decisions of the BIU are made by the Executive Board who directs me.

    Did you attend the Bermuda Music Festival as a guest of the Government in their Trophy Suite?
    Yes, I did attend the Bermuda Music Festival, but not as a guest of the Government in their Trophy Suite. The Government did not have a Trophy Suite, to my knowledge. I had three invitations to attend the Musical Festival and to sit in Trophy Suites. I was also offered a press pass.

    Let me state here, I am an executive member of the PLP, the Party that the people of Bermuda elected to run the government. As I said previously, I have/had a voters card, drivers license and passport. However, I do have family mambers and friends who are Members of Parliament and Cabinet, however those friendships were formed long before the PLP became the government.

    Prove me a liar!!

  248. Solid as a rock. Boy some get so defensive when they actually prepare the assualt.

    John Swan was right. He’s the head n………

  249. thats her job,just another beret thief trying shake down whitey and beat down brothers,what ya doin for the homeless, and most of us struggling to pay rent?

  250. One thing I admire about posters on this site and othe sites, including letters to the editor in the three newspapers in Bermuda, is your courage. Write on men, and women!!

  251. One thing I admire about posters on this site and othe sites, is your courage – especially the “Son of God” (Obatala).

  252. Any proof that Mrs. Furbert was a member of the “berets”? We all wear hats but you seem to be pointing us somewhere else. Can you back this accusation up?

  253. LaVerne,

    I agree with you, here we have SoO who “claims” to be forming the Poor Peoples Party (PPP), I guess in joint efforts with his side kick, Educated Pig, yet he and Educated Pig, hiding behind pen names throw around unfounded and unsubstantiated accusations about the PLP. Anyone who has political aspirations as he “claims” to have does, not reach his aspirations under anonymity. Like they say, “No guts, no glory”.

  254. have we figured out if the “Poor People’s Party” is anything else but a figment of a fevered imagination?

    Ms. Furbert,

    Kinda weird being on the same side of an argument, isn’t it? *grin*

  255. Cahow,

    I have no problem admitting that I was a member of the Black Berets. Before you judge me though, read the history of Bermuda. I also had a “boss” who referred to me “lovingly” as a “golliwog” (I didn’t have straightened hair). I also got dismissed from a job because I dared to write letters to the editor of the Royal Gazette and sign my name.

    By the way, as late as December 2007 I was referred to as a “mother-f–ing nigger b–ch” by one of your elders. I can only imagine the descriptives she and others used for me and people who looked like me in the 60’s.

    But now, we have people like Son of Obatala (God) who post such comments as “lol @ pitiful attempts to discredit what I have to say, typical plp behavior” in response to my comments.

    What can I say?

  256. Guilden,

    Educated Pigs and Son of Obatala, have not guts and certainly will get no glory, unless of course, Smoking Gun” will endow them with both guts and glory. They get neither from me.

  257. I never said you were amember of that organization. But from what you just admitted, now I do remember you. Times change eh?

  258. Do you sit on any Government Boards?
    No.

    http://www.bermudasun.bm/main.asp?SectionID=65&SubSectionID=646&ArticleID=40082&TM=72888.05

    HISTORICAL BUILDING ADVISORY COMMITTEE
    Development and Planning Act 1974
    Chair: Mr. George Morton
    Deputy Chair: Mr. Jeremy Johnston
    Senator Thaao Dill
    Ms. LaVerne Furbert (is this another LaVerne Furbert?)
    Rev. Judith A. M. Gardner
    Mr. Larry Mills
    Mr. Philip Nearon
    Mr. Arthur Lee Ray

    Did you attend the Bermuda Music Festival as a guest of the Government in their Trophy Suite?
    Yes, I did attend the Bermuda Music Festival, but not as a guest of the Government in their Trophy Suite.

    So you weren’t in attendance on the night Beyonce played as a guest of the Department of Tourism in Trophy Suite No. 3? You weren’t relaxing on the 2nd level that evening?

    I was also offered a press pass.
    Why?

  259. 32,

    I know you are directing your comments specifically to LaVerne but may I ask what point you are trying to make? What is the big deal if she sits or doesn’t sit on a Government Board, there are some people who are appointed to sit on Government Boards yet decide not to do so? Maybe she decided not to sit after the gazetting.

    If you are trying to imply that only PLP loyalists sit on Government Boards, let me tell you what I personally experienced. After I became a member of Leaders of Tomorrow I was magically appointed to the Bermuda Road Safety Council and the newly revamped National Youth Council. When I resigned from Leaders of Tomorrow in discussed and made my intentions known I was told that my tenure on the RSC would be terminated. Had I not threatened to go to the press with this threat I have no doubt my tenure would have been terminated.

    LaVerne did not say she was not in attendance, nor did she say she did not sit in Trophy Suite. She very clearly said: “Yes, I did attend the Bermuda Music Festival, but not as a guest of the Government in their Trophy Suite. The Government did not have a Trophy Suite, to my knowledge. I had three invitations to attend the Musical Festival and to sit in Trophy Suites.”

    LaVerne writes for the Worker’s Voice, alegitimate publication, therefore, there is nothing wrong or suspicious of her being given a press pass.

    Why do you guys look for scandals? Are you that desperate to discredit the PLP and its members/supporters? Is this just to say, “I gotcha!!!”

  260. This whole thread is going down the tubes, but I would add my two cents and say that I did see Ms Furbert at the Music Fest. in a Trophy Suite. There were a number of other PLP Reps in attendance as well. I am not sure whose box it was, but Ms Furbert was definitely there. But I do not think she has denied being there. Was it a Gov’t sponsered box – No idea.

  261. 32n64w,

    Don’t believe everthing you read in the newspaper. I sit on no government boards. As I said, I was not a guest of the Government in a Trophy Suite at the music festival. I was offered a press pass because I write for the Workers Voice.

    Yeah, why do you guys look for scandals?

  262. 32n64w,

    As Dr. Brown said on the Everest DaCosta show last week Friday, I wonder how brave you all would be if you had to come from behind your computers and show your faces. You all talk about him hiding behind “plantation questions”, but yet you hide behind your computers throwing out all sorts of accusations and untruths. By the way, if you saw me sitting in a trophy suite, you must have been sitting in one as well. Who paid for your seat? The Government?

  263. You’re right Pitts Bay, I have not denied being there. But how I, or anyone else, got to sit in trophy suites is nobody’s business.

  264. I also found Sir John’s article interesting, and troubling. The fundamental question that needs consideration is: If tourism really is floundering (which it is) and international business is sinking worldwide (which it is) and we have extremely high government expenditure (which we do)- what here has to give? As much as some people may dislike it, the simple fact is that Bermuda’s economy is precariously balanced upon one very large pillar – and that pillar involves very wealthy companies using us to their advantage. It is a mutually beneifical relationship, to be sure, and one that we should, even if it is begrudgingly, welcome with open arms.

    I had always assumed that IB would find Bermuda more attractive than alternatives regardless of what assinine new attack came against them as the government pander to its electorate (sorry, but that’s precisely what happens, and fair enough, it’s politics not business) however had never considered that a tax haven bill would actually get through congress and become law. If this happens, Sir John is right and it’s time to start looking elsewhere for gainful employment, unless we come up with something new.

    Bermuda has re-invented itself in the past. But I don’t think we are ready to do it again. The past 10 years have not been about moving the Bermuda economy forward, it has been about shifting the balance of the Bermuda economy. I’m not denying that we’ve grown magnificently, but that this was as much the result of external factors as a subsequent swift departure would be should the tax haven law be passed. Bermuda at the moment is a country divided, by party, by race and by industry. There is a festering resentment towards those in the IB jobs, as if they’re doing something wrong and that everyone is owed something from them. Rather than try and heal these divisions, it has made great political sense to play on them.

    Anyway, babbling aside, we’re at a point where I just can’t see Bermuda having the unity, the guile, the nous and the creativity to re-invent itself. And all of us will suffer because of it.

    A good example? Say Sir John’s suggestion was valid (I have my doubts) and that by allowing wealthy long-term residents in, our GDP would continue to grow, there’d be more jobs and so and so forth. The PLP would never let it happen, because it would fear these residents wouldn’t vote for them. It’s not in the party’s best interest, politically it doesn’t make sense, even if it does on other levels.

    And thus we will continue to be run (hopefully not into the ground) by goverments more focused on getting elected than on running the country successfully.

    @Guilden – I’ve discussed a system like you mentioned far above several times (individuals running for positions, no parties) and believe in a country as small as ours, this to be the only way forward. Perhaps it’ll take a massive crash to get there, but maybe one day…

  265. Lost,

    Maybe this is a governing concept that should be explored further, it would certainly remove partisanship and may hep Bermuda focus on what it takes to move the country forward rather than about focusing on what is wrong with the other persons poitn of view, winning elections and holding the seat of Government.

    LaVerne,

    I fully agree with those comments expressed by Dr. Brown, many are perfectly willing to particpate in these sorts of blogs throwing darts from behind a veil of secrecy. Maybe the discussion would be much more productive on both sides of the issues if everyone who claims to care about Bermuda stepped out from the shadows and be willing to be held accountable for what they say.

    I know during debates we can all say some silly things from time to time, myself included. That is actually the reason I have always signed my name to the things I say. If I say something out of place I have no choice but to accept personal accountability for what I have said.

    I also have to add that many people, especially those within the expat community do not speak out under their own names because there is a sense of retribution if they do. I believe that everyone who has a vested interest in Bermuda should be encouraged to present their thoughts, complaints and ideas without fear of retribution. Expats need to know that as guest in our country they should be able to “complete suggestion cards” even if they are diametrically opposed to the position of the Government of the day, just like many Bermudians who have worked outside Bermuda our expat guests have experiences very different from ours and maybe some of their ideas would be truly beneficial to Bermuda. Whether these fears are real or perceived, there should be no atmosphere of making people feel unwelcome to comment on the state of affairs in Bermuda.

  266. – Guilden

    What is the big deal if she sits or doesn’t sit on a Government Board

    None at all, but when sweeping statements such as I, personally have had no dealings with the Government, other than to get a drivers license, voters card and passport. are made which are not necessarily true (especially when contrasted against earlier published comments regarding veiled threats to have non-Bermudians deported – which clearly indicates a greater degree of contact and influence with the Government beyond simple matters of identification) I think it warrants further explanation.

    – Ms. Furbert

    Don’t believe everything you read in the newspaper.
    I sit on no government boards.

    As the Bermuda Sun is the official paper of record for the Bermuda Government are you saying that all of those Government Notices (which is exactly where this extract was pulled from) are not to be believed? If so, why does the Government continue to pay for advertising space if the Sun prints erroneous information?

    As I said, I was not a guest of the Government in a Trophy Suite at the music festival. I was offered a press pass because I write for the Workers Voice.

    So if the press were permitted to enjoy the show from the comforts of the Department of Tourism’s Trophy Suite (No. 3) why weren’t other media outlets represented there as well? Did the Worker’s Voice publish extensive coverage of the Music Festival including reviews, photos, etc.?

    Yeah, why do you guys look for scandals?

    See my comment above addressed to Guilden. Not looking for any scandals, just the truth.

  267. I have to say Guilden, that you hit the nail on the head in your last paragraph. Yes, a lot of posters on here and other sites do not take public ownership of their comments. Sure, sometimes it is because they simply prefer to shout anonymously from the crowd due to cowardice. However, there is quite a few people who do so because they are scared of being “outed”. They are scared of being prosecuted… and that is a horrible thought. When did we become a country where the prevailing thought towards expats and their opinions is that they don’t have a vote so they should shut up? As a black person, I know how it can feel to have your opinion valued less than someone elses simply because the manner of my birth. So what, our answer to this is to do the same to others?? I was born not-white, they were born not-Bermudian. Does that make what they have to say any less valid?

    The strength of a government is judged by many things, one of which being the strength of its opposition. Only those who are afraid of the ideas spoken by “outsiders” strive to muzzle them.

    *PS, it just occurred to me that I could be called one of those who choose to post anonymously. I’ve outed myself recently and I’m okay with that. Personally (now) I’m just not a big fan of Google…lol*

  268. … many are perfectly willing to particpate in these sorts of blogs throwing darts from behind a veil of secrecy. Maybe the discussion would be much more productive on both sides of the issues if everyone who claims to care about Bermuda stepped out from the shadows and be willing to be held accountable for what they say.

    And magically find my work permit not renewed (or even cancelled)? Ha… fat chance. I was very seriously considering a switch to at least my first name when the whole threatening Limey and his wife thing went down and that was the end of that, for good. I try to be constructive/helpful and don’t tend to post crap but at the end of the day sorry, I’m not going to get “seen off the island” for an island whose government has made it very clear it doesn’t give a flying f^&k about me and would much rather scapegoat me and make sure that I know that they really would have preferred if I hadn’t bothered to come here in the first place. Not worth it, so the mask stays on.

  269. Are you crazy?! No one in their right mind is gonna use their real names with Ms Furbert on the case. She has already set a nasty precedent by attacking certain people whom she does not agree with in various nefarious ways. And the plp are known to be vindictive. Now we have Guilden, usually level-headed, carrying on (and on) about SoO and attempting to discredit him. Not saying that you will out him… but I’ll keep my anonymity anyway thank you.

  270. As Dr. Brown said on the Everest DaCosta show last week Friday, I wonder how brave you all would be if you had to come from behind your computers and show your faces.

    If Dr. Brown was brave enough to formally introduce PATI legislative & parliamentary reforms with the same bravado and enthusiasm as expressed during the press conference last week where he assembled the entire cabinet to respond to the check writing scandal I suspect more posters would feel comfortable with removing their nom de plumes.

    You all talk about him hiding behind “plantation questions”, but yet you hide behind your computers throwing out all sorts of accusations and untruths.

    The last time I checked elected officials were accountable to the electorate … not the other way around. If Dr. Brown isn’t “brave” enough to answer questions then he shouldn’t be in public service to begin with.

    By the way, if you saw me sitting in a trophy suite, you must have been sitting in one as well. Who paid for your seat? The Government?

    Well, being that we the people footed the $3m+ bill I think it’s fair to say we all paid for those tickets, no?

  271. … many are perfectly willing to particpate in these sorts of blogs throwing darts from behind a veil of secrecy. Maybe the discussion would be much more productive on both sides of the issues if everyone who claims to care about Bermuda stepped out from the shadows and be willing to be held accountable for what they say.

    Given the current government’s response to criticism by expats seems to be cancellation of work permits and deportation you can’t blame them. Given Ms. Furbert’s record of persuing people that don’t agree with her I don’t blame anyone on a work permit for laying low. And the same goes for the rest of us – while we don’t need work permits and can hardly be deported we do have to worry about hiring staff (some of whom will require work permits), obtaining various licenses, and so forth.

  272. Guilden said

    “I fully agree with those comments expressed by Dr. Brown, many are perfectly willing to particpate in these sorts of blogs throwing darts from behind a veil of secrecy. Maybe the discussion would be much more productive on both sides of the issues if everyone who claims to care about Bermuda stepped out from the shadows and be willing to be held accountable for what they say.”

    This is part of the problem because the government needs to understand that times have changed. People are going to blog and hide behind identities because simply, it is their right. It is freedom of speech and asking people not to hide in secrecy when our government itself is not open is a little to ironic, don’t you think?

  273. I must admit Sara that your last sentence sums it up quite well. Excellant choice of words andis quite true. Others will disagree but thats the way the spin doctors work.

  274. Alsys & Canuck,

    That is the whole point, Bermuda, at this stage of development should be way above the point where people issue threats of revocation of work permit or non-renewal of work permit simply because an expat makes his voice heard. EVERYONE who has a vested interest in Bermuda (Bermudian -resident and non-resident, expat and SoB) should be free to express his views on the state of Bermuda because the state of Bermuda affects all those with a vested interest.

    NO ONE should feel threatened of be intimidated for speaking out.

    Starman,

    My targeting SoO, in my view, is justified, I respect that you may not agree. Someone who tries to bribe a senior government official, as far as I am concerned, should be given no credibility for comments made about the Government. Regaining credibility after such actions has to be earned and that starts with an admission of the conduct. But that is just my view. If yours differs than I have to respect that.

    You are correct, I will not out SoO because I do not see it as my place to do so simply because I know what he has attempted to do. As much as I disagree with him he and he alone has a right to determine if and when he will come out from behind his pen name.

  275. 30 something,

    I don’t know why you and others continue to accuse you me of making “veiled threats”. As usual you take everything out of context if it’s posted by someone other than an anonymous poster. I don’t intend explaining myself any further on that matter. I think I’ve done it enough. And you don’t need to copy and paste anything for me.

    I said nothing about Government notices not to be believed, I said I do not sit on a government board. Pick the bones out of that.

    Also, I never said anything about the press being able to sit in the Department of TOurism’s Trophy suite. This is what I did say “Yes, I did attend the Bermuda Music Festival, but not as a guest of the Government in their Trophy Suite. The Government did not have a Trophy Suite, to my knowledge. I had three invitations to attend the Musical Festival and to sit in Trophy Suites. I was also offered a press pass.” By the way where did you sit?

    I don’t think that anyone on this site, or any other site has any evidence of anyone’s work permit not being extended because of their criticism of government policies. However, it’s one thing to give constructive criticism of government’s police, it’s another thing to constantly accuse the Premier and other Government ministers of corruption and other nasty things that I read on most of Bermuda’s blogs.

    I do have evidence of Bermudians who made their feelings known about the UBP when they were in government having their mortgages called, being fired from their jobs, etc. etc.

    And you “all” did not pay for my music festival tickets.

  276. Sara,

    I certainly am in complete agreement with you regarding the opennes and transparency of government. The government should lead by example on this matter.

  277. I do have evidence of Bermudians who made their feelings known about the UBP when they were in government having their mortgages called, being fired from their jobs, etc. etc.

    Come on Laverne. You can do better than “the UBP did it too”.

  278. As usual you take everything out of context if it’s posted by someone other than an anonymous poster. I don’t intend explaining myself any further on that matter. I think I’ve done it enough.

    Out of what context? Where have you explained anything?

    I said nothing about Government notices not to be believed, I said I do not sit on a government board.

    Wrong. You said don’t believe everything you read in the newspaper so a perfectly reasonable response following the official Gazetting of your appointment to a Government Board in the paper of record is to ask … what else isn’t to be believed? You introduced the possibility of erroneous reporting not me so I’ll leave the bone picking to you.

    Yes, I did attend the Bermuda Music Festival, but not as a guest of the Government in their Trophy Suite

    So are you confirming you were not present on the 2nd level of Trophy Suite No 3. the night Beyonce performed?

    it’s one thing to give constructive criticism of government’s police, it’s another thing to constantly accuse the Premier and other Government ministers of corruption and other nasty things that I read on most of Bermuda’s blogs.

    Oh please. Any critiquing of this government of any type is automatically dismissed regardless of how relevant or perfectly justified it is. The government is incapable of receiving any form of criticism so please put an end to this victim mentality.

    I do have evidence of Bermudians who made their feelings known about the UBP when they were in government having their mortgages called, being fired from their jobs, etc. etc.

    Publish it then.

    And you “all” did not pay for my music festival tickets.

    You’ve made it quite clear that you didn’t directly pay for them either. Nonetheless as tax paying residents of Bermuda whose government footed the bill to the tune of $3m+ (just think of how far that money could have gone towards instilling in [our] people a healthy understanding and knowledge of the past) we in fact all paid for this event.

  279. Blankman, I’m not saying the UBP did it too, I am saying that I have no evidence of anyone’s work permit being withdrawn because they criticised the government. Do you have evidence of this?

    I know that I lost a job because of my public support for the PLP and my public dissatisfaction with the UBP.

    30 something, why are you so upset that I was sitting in a trophy seat?

  280. LIF – I agree that we need a new model. The only problem with Sir John’s suggestion is that it may perpetuate further social and economic stratification. On the one hand it provides us with some source of revenue and individuals pumping money into the economy, but on the other hand there is still a large segment of the population that are struggling and will continue to struggle unless our systems, particularly our education system are fixed.

    Likewise, I do not see it happening under the present government, who I’m sure are quite comfortable with the status quo as the numbers work in their favour. I’m not a huge fan of the idea but given that our survival is dependent on our ability to adapt to change, I think it is one that does warrant further consideration. I am all for Bermuda for Bermudians, but not when it comes at the price of our long-term survival in an increasingly globalized world.

  281. 32… Not sure what the purpose is in getting into a pissing match with Ms. Furbert. She’s already confirmed that she was in a Trophy Suite, although not as a guest of the Government. What’s so difficult to understand about that? Furthermore, she’s the only one that can confirm who she was a guest of… and she’s already advised that it was NOT Government. Beyond that, I don’t think it’s anybody’s business who invited her.

    Once again… what’s the point in publishing evidence of individuals who had their mortgages called in, etc when the non-believers will simply seek to debunk this reality or attempt to explain it through some personal failure of shortcoming which surely must be the underlying cause.

  282. … what’s the point in publishing evidence of individuals who had their mortgages called in, etc when the non-believers will simply seek to debunk this reality or attempt to explain it through some personal failure of shortcoming which surely must be the underlying cause.

    Personally I don’t think details are important. I’m sure it happened and there was a day that Bermuda was really governed from the billiards room of the Yacht Club.

    What is important is Laverne’s apparent belief that the behavior of the PLP is justified because “the UBP did it too”.

  283. Blankman,

    I just wonder why when the actions of the UBP are brought into a conversation it is automatically interpreted as a “well the UBP did it response”. Are we expected to forget the actions of the UBP and pretend that these actions did not occur? Are we to brush it under the rug? I do not see where LaVerne has used that argument, what she has stated is a fact and I can tell you that my parents had their mortgages called because of my father being so outspoken. My parents remind me that despite what they endured they paid off two mortgages without having lost their properties.

    As LaVerne pointed out, she was fired from her job because she dared speak out against the UBP Government.

    I know expats are reluctant to speak out for fear of having their work permit revoked or non-renewed and to date there is no evidence to support this as a reality. At this time I believe it is more perception than reality. This perception is still a grave concern because no one should feel that there is even a remote chance that this could or would happen.

    So whether you and others wish to discuss it or not under the UBP Government not only were people threatened, action was actually taken. This does not mean that anyone of us feels that any form of threats is acceptable under a PLP Government.

  284. 30 something, why are you so upset that I was sitting in a trophy seat?

    I’m not upset, I couldn’t care less about it. My concern relates to you making sweeping generalisations such as I, personally have have had no dealings with the Government, other than to get a drivers license, voters card and passport. which are patently untrue. That’s all.

    32… Not sure what the purpose is in getting into a pissing match with Ms. Furbert.

    It’s simple. See my remarks above.

  285. 30 something,

    For someone who couldn’t care less about me sitting in a trophy suite, you’ve certainly spent a lot of time discussing it on this site. Not all members of the PLP are involved in the government, most of us are just members who continue to do what we can to support our party. We did it before 1998 and most us will continue until we die.

  286. OK.

    I guess everyone forgets Curtis Macleod, who didn’t even have to criticize the government but merely to not recognize one hothead to get his work permit revoked. With a little digging, I’m sure we can come up with some more people who have faced retribution from the current government.

    As for the mortgages, back in the days when mortgages were being pulled (and I know this was true because it happened to my family too), the banks DID NOT HOLD THE MORTGAGES. The banks were only proxies for wealthy people who were the ones who actually gave the mortgages. The banks did not have a consumer lending scheme of their own until the very late seventies (started with John Swan). With no real checks or balances against the whims of the wealthy who were giving these monies, small wonder that people were disadvantaged by their political or social activities.

    Check with older bank employees to verify this. A past president told me of this practice a few months ago. I was totally unaware of the practice, like most others, I wager. It looks like things really were run from the RBYC in those days.

  287. Guilden – no evidence? Really? A few spring to mind right off the bat – the construction worker (who was ultimately given permission to return) that had the gaul to offend an MP (an MP who was himself being horribly offensive no less), and the lady who was shown the door after she criticized the Govt’s decision to close the clinic.

    Personally, the only reason that I choose not to post under my real name is that for all I know my boss is a lurker on these blogs and I really don’t need him/her finding out that I sneak on these sites periodically. Then again, I’m Bermudian, and I’m not afraid to make my opinions known using other venues. An expat? Well, go ask that lady from the hospital what happened when she threw her two cents in. Expats have been told to but out so many times it’s a little odd that you say there is no evidence of hostility to expats who public question or criticize the govt.

  288. The D – Thanks, I was trying to remember that Dr’s name as well… I can understand why some expats would feel intimidated given some of the statements that have been made by various individuals (Ministers included) as well as the cases highlighted above which at least on the surface have the appearance of some sort of retribution against individuals who speak out… or don’t recognize various Government officials.

  289. I just wonder why when the actions of the UBP are brought into a conversation it is automatically interpreted as a “well the UBP did it response”. Are we expected to forget the actions of the UBP and pretend that these actions did not occur?

    Because why bring it up unless you’re trying to look for an excuse? If the old UBP was really that bad, shouldn’t the current government (whoever that may be) be held (and hold themselves) to a MUCH higher standard instead of an equal or marginally better one? “People are concerned about their permits” “yeah well the UBP got mortgages pulled” – umm… the latter sounds like bad news, but what’s it got to do with the former unless one is attempting dismiss the present as “not that bad”? Stop using past wrongs to excuse current aggression as being “not that bad”… pointing to the past with a shrug of the shoulders and saying “meh, could be worse, look at what they did” doesn’t sound too progressive to me.

  290. “Because why bring it up unless you’re trying to look for an excuse? If the old UBP was really that bad, shouldn’t the current government (whoever that may be) be held (and hold themselves) to a MUCH higher standard instead of an equal or marginally better one?”

    It strikes me that the UBP Government were not held to the same standard that we’re trying to hold the PLP to… Now the argument can be made that there weren’t computers, access to information blah blah blah… but ummm… the concept of Government, and good government isn’t really THAT new.

  291. Well guess who runs the RBYC nowadays. The people with the platinum gun. What was good for the Goslings is now good for the Gombeys.

  292. CO –

    “It strikes me that the UBP Government were not held to the same standard that we’re trying to hold the PLP to… Now the argument can be made that there weren’t computers, access to information blah blah blah… but ummm… the concept of Government, and good government isn’t really THAT new.”

    No, not so new a concept. But you know what else was not around back in the UBP days? You and I. I was too young to care, was away at school, and I wasn’t even Bermudian yet. I can’t speak for your level of interest in politics back then, but if you had any strong feelings either way you were certainly without a way to really voice your opinions. I understand why someone would be skeptical of a person much older than we are who is suddenly ‘concerned’ about good government, PATI, etc, but what about you and me?

  293. The D,

    Thank you for that. I have to admit that I do not know all the circumstances surrounding these matters but I do recall the Minister making some comment to the effect “Do you know who I am?” to which the response should have been, “Yeah, you are a servant of the people!!!!” I do recall hearing something about the Dr. but I really have no idea of what caused this so I will have to reserve any comment.

    There is no way that ANYONE should feel threatened by any Government of Bermuda and it is high time Bermudians stood up and demand more of their Government. If these work permit revocations really had no justification, as it appears with the construction worker because I believe the courts reversed the Government actions, than Bermudians need to be very concerned and they should be demanding fair treatment of everyone. If I recall, with regard the construction worker, there was no real public outcry and no outcry can be interpreted as agreement, sad really.

  294. My most sincere apologies about never saying boo about the UBP while they were in power, I only found out they existed a few years ago. I’ll see if I can hook up with Bill and Ted and fix that

  295. The D – Granted you and I probably weren’t old enough. I’ve always been interested in Politics and was probably the only 7 or 8 year old reading the Royal Gazette on a nightly basis ;-). That said though, I don’t think that we are that different from our mothers and fathers, or grandparents when it comes to our expectations on ethics, government, good governance, etc… We’re not talking about coming out of the Stone Age here, this system has been around for a very long time…Or are we that different? Can things have really changed that much in a decade?

  296. I wonder how many people here, would expect to continue to work for an organisation if you wrote a letter to the editor, signed your name and complained about a decision that the Board of that organisation made. Can you imagine someone working for ACE or XL writing a letter to the editor of the Royal Gazetee complaining about a decison that the Board of Directors made. I certainly would be expected to be fired from the BIU if I wrote a letter to the editor of the Royal Gazette complaining about a decision that the Executive Board made.

    However, I think that if I voiced my concern internally to the President and other members of the BIU Executive, there wouldn’t be a problem. Just as I believe, had the good doctor, voiced her concerned to the Board, she would still be working today. I don’t think it had anything to do with her being a guest worker.

  297. It strikes me that the UBP Government were not held to the same standard that we’re trying to hold the PLP to…

    Well, a lot of that is because the PLP, in their platforms, promised to hold themselves to a higher standard. “Sunshine of public scrutiny” and all that.

    There is constant criticism of the UBP (most of it warranted), yet, when the PLP act just like them, it seems that it’s ok.

    I think that’s where it comes from.

  298. Sorry, that may have been a bit umm, jerkoff-ish of me

    Anyway, excellent adventures aside… I think the reason that you’re seeing more criticism/observation from people these days is that information has made it easier. With just about everything in society these days there’s been a polarization. For example 50 years ago I’d bet most people could cook reasonably well, clean a roast or a bird, whatever… and now you’ve got people who either consider themselves amateur iron chefs, or microwave specialists, not too many people in between. Now take politics – years ago everybody cared to some degree and in fact politics was a form of entertainment. Then people got more and more apathetic, and then the popularity of the internet exploded allowing those of us with semi-obsessive personalities (who managed to take an interest in this stuff) to dig and read and argue all we wanted, and here we are!

  299. And with respect to the whole anonymity thing… As The D pointed out, you never know who is lurking about and what their intentions may or may not be.

    UE – I get what you’re saying, but I’m not sure that the first thing that comes to people’s minds before criticizing the PLP is that “They were supposed to do better”… particularly when a lot of those same individuals refer to PLP voters en masse as dumb and stupid, and would prefer a return to the UBP…

  300. CO – I honestly have no idea. I certainly remember my parents complaining around the dinner table about the way things were run back then, but publicly speaking out? Doubt it, knowing them. But the thing is, I really just have to take everyone’s word for it that nobody cared about those things back then, there’s no way to prove otherwise (well I suppose I could go to the library and search for articles and letters criticizing the government – but I’d rather play golf), and it’s certainly possible that folks were happy with the status quo and just turned a blind eye to the same sorts of things that are happening now. But surely someone must have been complaining? Sure, they may have come from the other side of the aisle, but critics of the government are another thing that have been around for quite some time.

  301. “I wonder how many people here, would expect to continue to work for an organisation if you wrote a letter to the editor, signed your name and complained about a decision that the Board of that organisation made. Can you imagine someone working for ACE or XL writing a letter to the editor of the Royal Gazetee complaining about a decison that the Board of Directors made. I certainly would be expected to be fired from the BIU if I wrote a letter to the editor of the Royal Gazette complaining about a decision that the Executive Board made.”

    LF – I seem to remember Paula Cox taking ACE to task for the number of Bermudians they were training up a while back…

  302. In other news: Why is it just now that bus cancellations are being announced – some of which concern school routes (Prospect Primary, warwick Academy, Spice Valley). WTF. Stability? We can’t even run our bus system in a timely fashion or provide people with enough notice of cancellations in advance.

    I mean… shouldn’t school routes be the priority?

  303. I know that the bus workers have been upset about the safety situation at the new terminal for some time now, and that this recently surfaced again. I understood they won some concessions, like parking and driving through (with deliveries for stores an exception), so I imagine this action is connected to another issue. In particular I know the workers have been upset with proposed shift changes and last I heard this issue was still festering. Having said that, yeah, the children should be a priority, even if all other routes were to be cut. But I do not know what strategy and tactics the workers have called, or the exact details of this current issue. I hope that it is resolved soon though.

  304. I think the bus situation might be due to the high winds last night. I heard there were some buses damaged, some routes were not accessible (trees down maybe?). And the work to rule thing certainly doesn’t help…

  305. The reason the UBP were not held to the same standard is because at the time the opposition or even the people even today do not understand international standards of politics outside Bermuda. We live in a different age.
    Most people still believe politicans to be Jesus or Mohammad. This comes from slavery.
    If you were to listen to african talks shows or study african cults ,there has always been leaders trying to kill or overthrow leaders. Thats the only way whites were given the power to rule the world.
    This personality cult that slaves in Bermuda follow comes from low self esteem and low international cultural education. Young politicans should always look to destroy older politicans who fail the people. This is called cout ‘detat by Ibie.
    The silver lining of the PLP recession is to destroy young people with poverty while old people feed off the youth like Hansel and Gretel with 70% home ownership and pension payouts.
    The Government intends to starve young people to death with lower wages mass unemployment will create.
    Too bad the PLP yyouth do not have the brains and experience to understand a recession. In 1994 a one bedroom condo went for $99000 at Cherry Hill Park.

  306. I believe LaVerne is referring to a letter to the editor the doctor wrote about the closure of the indigent clinic. I think she put forward some good ideas, and I think she was treated in a rather heavy handed manner, although the managers appear to have acted legitimately. I just think they could have handled it better, especially as it appears that the Doctor was trying to supply people with information with which to make an informed decision with.

  307. This is where the Government wants to take the new Burch economy but look at the reduced labour rate for workers at Master” s Bull head parking lot during the same era…..

  308. The silver lining for the PLP government is to destroy the economy to oppress the poor more and more. No confidence in government we need a general election.

  309. The D,

    The reason that both political parties are still around is because people keeping joining them, young and old. I’ve been a member of the PLP since I was in my early 20’s, and prior to that I was very active politically as were many of my friends. Members on both my maternal side and my paternal side have been very involved in politics for many, many years.

    Also, I would be very, very surprised if Minister Cox publicly criticised her employer. That’s not what I read in the article you referred to.

    Guilden,

    There are always two sides to every story. Having said that, Mr. McCloud appealed the Minister’s decision and he returned to Bermuda. Whether he’s still here or not I don’t know. Believe me, it was not George Scott (MP, not a Minister) had other reasons to be unhappy with Mr. McCloud’s behaviour.

  310. Sure it was subtle, but the way I read it, she was basically saying that he didn’t know what he was talking about.

    About your first paragraph, I’m sorry, not sure what your getting at. I’m not questioning why the parties have been around for so long. My point (one of them) was that criticism of the Govt is not a new thing, it’s just coming from different people now – Much in the same way that the folks on Fox News are now the ones criticizing the new President. Before November, they were pretty big fans of the President.

    Another point was that sure, there may be some people (older than I am) who are suddenly making PATI, open goverment, etc a top priority when they didn’t seem to really care ‘back in the day’, and I see nothing wrong with questioning their intentions. The problem for me arises when someone like me, who has lived their entire adult life under a PLP government, can’t question, criticize, or complain without being written off in the same manner. There are a multitude of legitimate reasons why you never heard from me in the 90s and before, but none of them have anything to do with me being some die hard UBP lifer who turned a blind eye to the shananigans they pulled. That’s a group that I don’t want to be lumped in with.

  311. “By the way, if you saw me sitting in a trophy suite, you must have been sitting in one as well. Who paid for your seat? The Government?”

    Well… since you asked, I was a guest of Bank of Bermuda (Member HSBC Group) – you were in the Suite right next to it.

  312. The D,

    Of course the criticism of the Govt is coming from different people, when the UBP was in power, criticism came from PLP supporters, now that the PLP is in power, much of the criticism is coming for UBP supporters. The problem I have is that some people believe that I and others should not support the PLP and should go along with all of the criticism. Certainly I was openly critical of the UBP while they were in power, but I never accused them of corruption all refer to their leaders and their families in the same tone that most anti-plpers refer to leaders of the PLP. In fact, I have a very cordial relationship with all of the UBP leaders who are still with us.

    I don’t watch Fox news, but from what I hear they were never fans of Obama.

    I really do have a problem with people who are calling for PATI legislation now but never called for it before, when they were in a position to put the law in place, i.e. John Barritt, Stuart Hayward, etc. I am not averse to PATI legislation, but I don’t like how some people are now saying it’s necessary when they didn’t think it was necessary before. I have been around a lot longer than you. While everybody who blogs in Bermuda knows my name, rank and serial number, the only people I know for sure are Jonathan and Guilden. But from reading the posts of others, it appears to me that I am much older than most posters.

    Pitts Bay, I figured you and 30-something were in the Bank of Bermuda Suite. I bet you were sucking right up to the CEO, smiling in his face, while stabbing him in his back. Did you pay to sit there, or was you seat a gift of the Bank?

  313. Alsys & Canuck

    People who have spoken out against this plp government have received the same unconstitutional treatment that the people who spoke out against the ubp have. Old folks used to call this “Black listing” since it was a white party breaking bermudians constitutional rights.
    Now since a black party is runnin babylon….they call this action “white listing” This is why many speak up from a position in the shadows. I don’t blame them for speakin in this manner…they have learned from the examples of what has happened to other bermudians and non bermudians who have spoken up.

    In this nation….if you speak up… you speak up on ya own and @ ya own risk

    Guilden says NO ONE should feel threatened of be intimidated for speaking out.
    HA…look at wa hes been attempting to do to me all this time…lmao. Ive already told him numerious times hes barkin up de wrong tree by attempting to connect me with something he thinks he knows about a person who he thinks I am.

    Yo u can say wa u wanna say guilden or whateva ya real name is……just incude ya real name and contact info so the real person u talkin about can be able to reach u, n sue you for slander…that’s all…..lol Ive already told u u r mistaken, yet you persist, If you were so certain you would have “outed me “ as you say a long time ago.

    Your attempts at intimidation are not working.

    I notice that all u have been able to do in response to all of my posts have been to try n go afta me with ya nonsence instead of addressing the content of my posts…..lol So apparently in ya eyes people wit opinions who don’t use their real names are not worthy to be heard, no matter how valid their points are…..hmmm…that’s the same mentality the ubp had b4 they were outed frm government.

    In this society the people who speak up behind pen names equate to the average man, whos needs have still not been met by this system. Who don’t get heard because of who he may happen to be, and how much money he may not have.

    Starling…he Guilden may think his out of order “plan to out me” are justified……the question is to you thinks its justified…..?

    All this pen name bullshit is just that…the bullshit of a desperate bunch who are trying to hold onto power @ any expence…even breakin the peoples constitutional rights. Via political intimidation. Its signifies the beginning of the PLP gistapo and secret police.

    I was a public vocal person…then I had my constitutional rights breeched by this plp government…was able to see the levels of corruption that exist in the system while in the pursute of so called justice…. so now im in the so called shadows. Many other have had my same experience..harrel darrel…aka son of soil….and now Phil perienchief.

    Eventually those in the shadows who speak up will connect as a group and then they can speak out publically as a united force…..

    Its just like gang warefare……u don’t fight gangs (political parties, governments) by yourself…history shows its an unwinnable fight.

    Pigs….

    U mean no confidence in the PLP run government, no confidence in the opposition UBP and no confidence in the wesminster system. There4 forceing systemic change. And the creation of a bottom up run democracy

    Labour wages are already lowered via PLP assisting the greedy companies on the island who have brought in workers only to exploite them, while breaking the employment act En mass in every blue color sector job. While I glad the col is now “appearing” to make some changes……its a whole lot to late.

    All companies who bid for work….pad their bids with all the economic benifits outlined in the employment act….IE over time pay etc. The scam that they have been running for all this time, including while under the UBp administration, is to pay the workers minimum wage pay, and keep the balance, and make people work at straight time. This has even been done on PLP government jobs.

    This is fraud, and theft from the customers…

    this is also multi level corruption including:

    the BIU, who has been aware of this but has not lobied the so called labor government to be accountable and make local companies who break the law accountable.
    and including the government itself who as supposedly being a labour party, have not had the workers backs on this basic fundamental issue what directly effects the quality of life for the working class.

    The local companies that the col been speakin about in his reference to the culture of greed, have exploited the forigners…..and forcing bermudian tradesmen to work at the same reduced wages…again this has also been happening on plp government run jobs.
    back in summer o7 some bermudian crook employers were trying to pay masons $20 per hr. So yes they will try to pay skilled workers lower wages based on the excuse of the bad economy.

    col burch clearly needs to be brought up to speed with the existing plight of the local bluecollar workforce. So he can refocus his “radical change” in his ministry, and sue employers who have broken the law so the lost wages owed to bermudians can be recouped. Every single work category needs to be examined and when theres a Bermudian whos out of work, that foreign workers permit needs to be brought out, and the foreigner leaves, and the local worker takes the job, with the correct level of pay, based on government regulated guidelines, thus ending exploitation.

    Make them sell off some of the material excesses they have been able to buy with our money if nesscary.

    The Plp is making the recession into a depression to make the working class more dependent on government and there4 make them selves out to be the saviours of the working class in the process

  314. “Educated” Pigs, you really have no idea what you’re talking about, do you?

    The reason the UBP were not held to the same standard is because at the time the opposition or even the people even today do not understand international standards of politics outside Bermuda. We live in a different age.
    That’s THE reason?

    Most people still believe politicans to be Jesus or Mohammad. This comes from slavery.

    Care to elaborate on that? ‘Cuz it sounds like nonsense to me.I can assure you that politicians being held in high regard dates back to before the Atlantic Slave Trade. It has NOTHING to do with slavery.

    If you were to listen to african talks shows or study african cults ,there has always been leaders trying to kill or overthrow leaders. Thats the only way whites were given the power to rule the world.

    Cults? Funny, I thought most of the leaders in Africa were Christian or Muslim. Huh… learn something every day!
    As for “the only way whites were given power to rule the world”, you are so far off base here it’s not even funny. Europeans were in fighting and overthrowing their leaders for centuries as well. Why is it that, according to you, it only affected the Africans to their detriment?
    I think, if you are interested in ACTUALLY educating yourself, you should check out the book “Guns, Germs and Steel”. It give FAR better, FAR more fact-based reasons for the oppression and suppression of Africa. Here’s a couple of things that were more influential than “leaders trying to kill or overthrow leaders”: Lack of portable crops, climate change as you move north/south and a lack of domesticated animals.
    You might want to check reality before you make statements like this…

    This personality cult that slaves in Bermuda follow comes from low self esteem and low international cultural education.

    And here’s me thinking that it was segregation and societal, institutionalized racism.
    Young politicans should always look to destroy older politicans who fail the people. This is called cout ‘detat by Ibie.
    Destroy? “Coups d’etat” have their place, but to make a call to “destroy older politicians” in Bermuda is just ludicrous.
    Sure, the PLP isn’t doing as well as we would have liked, but come on.

    The silver lining of the PLP recession is to destroy young people with poverty while old people feed off the youth like Hansel and Gretel with 70% home ownership and pension payouts.

    OHHHH! It’s “the PLP recession”. The international financial crisis has NOTHING to do with it.
    What’s your solution for “feeding off the youth… with… pension payouts”? Stop paying pensions to folks who have dutifully paid their pensions for 40 or more years?
    Or is there another solution you suggest?

    The Government intends to starve young people to death with lower wages mass unemployment will create.

    Any basis in reality for this claim? Or is it just more of your supposition?

    Too bad the PLP yyouth do not have the brains and experience to understand a recession. In 1994 a one bedroom condo went for $99000 at Cherry Hill Park.

    And? In 1982 a five bedroom, two apartment house on a half acre of land went for $250,000. Limited supply+increased demand=higher prices. Isn’t that how that part of economics works?

    Ms. Furbert,

    The problem I have is that some people believe that I and others should not support the PLP and should go along with all of the criticism.
    For me, if I can interject, I don’t have a problem with your support for your Party. I, in fact, admire you for it. I wish there was a party that I believed in enough to support them. What I have a problem with is not your support, it’s the seeming lack of belief that they could mess up. For me, support means trying to make the party better. Outright denial of any problems and scathing attacks as a response to criticism, rather than looking at those critiques and seeing if they have merit, outright dismissal of these critiques is NOT the way to make the party better, in my not-so-humble opinion. It’s this lack of consideration for what people are saying and the straw-men arguments put up as a defense that I have a problem with.
    Certainly I was openly critical of the UBP while they were in power,
    As was I, just not as public about it as I am now.

    but I never accused them of corruption all refer to their leaders and their families in the same tone that most anti-plpers refer to leaders of the PLP.
    Perhaps not, but you have to admit that things like, “A UBP vote is a vote back to slavery…” and the rest are just as bad as some of the anti-plp claims.
    How about accusations against Ms. Pamplin for her husband’s problems? Or the accusations against Mr. Dunkley for something that he not only had nothing to do with, but actually helped get to the bottom of (if reports in the RG are to be believed)? Or the “racist dog” incident against Dr. Gibbons?
    In fact, I have a very cordial relationship with all of the UBP leaders who are still with us.
    And I have a cordial relationship with some PLP MPs. Some of them are even friends of mine! *grin*

    I don’t watch Fox news, but from what I hear they were never fans of Obama.
    Please don’t start. It’s disgusting!

    I really do have a problem with people who are calling for PATI legislation now but never called for it before, when they were in a position to put the law in place, i.e. John Barritt, Stuart Hayward, etc.
    John Barritt I get, but when was Stuart Hayward ever in a position to put the law in place?
    I am not averse to PATI legislation, but I don’t like how some people are now saying it’s necessary when they didn’t think it was necessary before.
    Just to be clear, you are not against PATI, you just think it’s hypocritical for some who never called for it before to be calling for it now. Yes?
    How about those who weren’t in a position, or weren’t old enough, to make the call? For first timers who are just getting into politics, is it ok for them to be calling for it?

    I have been around a lot longer than you. While everybody who blogs in Bermuda knows my name, rank and serial number, the only people I know for sure are Jonathan and Guilden.
    And me. Well, you don’t know me, but you know my name and where I work.

  315. “The Plp is making the recession into a depression to make the working class more dependent on government and there4 make them selves out to be the saviours of the working class in the process”

    and the plp got the world markets to cooperate with this conspiracy how?

  316. D

    the reason political parties r still around is beacuse many bermudians especially in the majority of the population (african people) are not really educated on the political alternatives to tha westminster system that they as educated politically responsible population can bring into existance.

    This is by design….so the corrupt political parties can continue to share the peoples wealth amongst themselves and their supporters.

    Bermuda makes up more people then only the ubp n plp supporters…so ms furberts opinion that only the ubp people r “going after” the plp is seriously flawed.

    And im not an old person, and im not ubp or plp, yet as a taxpater I want pati/foi legilsation because its the correct “gold standard” to have.

    And the more resistance to pati foi only proves…they doin stuff like their ubp friends did while they were there in the seat of power.

    what the ubp did was corruption and whats goin on now is also corruption. It was wrong then n its wrong now.

  317. Old folks used to call this “Black listing” since it was a white party breaking bermudians constitutional rights.

    Um. No. This is incorrect. The phrase has NOTHING to do with race, whatsoever.

    According to an article in the Washington Post, “A phrase first used by playwright Philip Massinger in 1619 to describe those who possess neither “fire nor spirit of their owne.”

    From Wiki: “In American history, one of the most famous examples of blacklisting stemmed from an investigation launched in 1947 by the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) into Communist influence on the motion picture industry.”

    Both of these were from BEFORE there was “a white party” in Bermuda.

  318. Elvis….
    “Outright denial of any problems and scathing attacks as a response to criticism, rather than looking at those critiques and seeing if they have merit, outright dismissal of these critiques is NOT the way to make the party better”

    @ least you n I agree on this singular thing if not anything else @ wa u had 2 sey bout ms furbert.

    Dr doom….huh?….I didnt say that. so wa r u talking about. did u not read wa i said above the exerpt u cut n pasted.

    oh i see wa u tryin to get @…..lol its not a conspiracy if its happening right in front of us. To ansa ya question…how could the plp have gotten the world markets to make this happen…..its not possible..unless the plp had sumptin to do with the failures of the local IB companies.

    Wa i am sayin is that they are takin advantage of this global meltdown, to achieve the objective i mentioned, and not takin care of the people.

    Obama is sayin stimulos package to not repeat 1930 great pepression.
    Craig simmons sayin stimulos package for the same reason.

    So far plp has been sayin cut dis chop that….it remains to be seen what this new budget will bring……but unless it contains wa craig simmons was talkin about on news 2nite….my comments that you referd to stand in my opinion.

  319. For me, support means trying to make the party better

    Uncle Elvis,

    How I hate that name. Whenever I read it I think of Uncle Ben’s rice and then Elvis Presley. I never use Uncle Ben’s rice, and I’m not a fan a Elvis Presley. Believe it or not I have no idea who you are, but that’s neither here nor there.

    Stuart Hayward, was a Member of Parliament, while he was not in position to put a law in place, he could have raised the issue. He never did when whe was a Member of Parliament. But I’ve been wrong before.

    John Barritt was old enough, Stuart Hawyard was old enough, Patricia Gordon Pamplin was old enough, Wayne Furbert was old enough. But what about the people who came before them?

    As far as the person who posts as Son of Obatala, I have no further comment. He has spoken. People should listen!! Listen to the Shirley Dill show and the Everest DaCosta show if you want to hear more.

  320. LaVerne Furbert said

    How I hate that name. Whenever I read it I think of Uncle Ben’s rice and then Elvis Presley. I never use Uncle Ben’s rice, and I’m not a fan a Elvis Presley. Believe it or not I have no idea who you are, but that’s neither here nor there.

    WOW, that sounds like a true snoot!!

  321. I’m sorry that you hate my name. I am a fan of Elvis Presley and not only his contributions to music, but to society. Contrary to the myth that he said “the only thing Negroes can do for me is buy my records and shine my shoes”, he is considered by many people to be a hero for equality, fighting hard to make “coloured music” acceptable.
    In the snopes.com article that debunks the myth, they quote his Biographer as saying “During the 1950s and early 1960s blacks had been among [Elvis’] most avid fans. Recognizing Elvis’s sincere affection for gospel, soul, and R&B, and his willingness to acknowledge his debt to the African-American musicians who had influenced him, black Americans had a higher regard for Presley than for any other white performer of the era.
    There is no question that in the early days of rock and roll, some whites cynically appropriated black culture for commercial purposes and deprived African-American artists of recognition and royalties. But Elvis Presley was not among them. And to identify him as one of the main culprits was bad history, a misperception of the facts.

    and Elvis himself: “When asked if he ever made the remark, Mississippi-born Elvis declared: “I never said anything like that, and people who know me know I wouldn’t have said it.””

    and finally, “Michael T. Bertrand, writing in Race, Rock, and Elvis, noted that the infamous remark first appeared in an article about the singer as something said by an anonymous “person on the street”:

    The affront first appeared in print in April 1957 in “How Negroes Feel About Elvis,” a story in the Fort Worth-based (and white-owned) Sepia magazine. The article began by declaring that “colored opinion about the hydromatic-hipped hillbilly from Mississippi runs the gamut from caustic condemnation to ardent admiration. [Nevertheless,] some Negroes are unable to forget that Elvis was born in Tupelo, Mississippi, hometown of the foremost Dixie race baiter, former Congressman John Rankin.” The story continued, “To find how Negroes feel about Elvis, Sepia queried top names in show business as well as people in the street.” Presumably from the “people in the street” sample came the infamous and uncredited quotation: “The only thing Negroes can do for me is shine my shoes and buy my records.”

    Sepia also incuded an editorial by the Rev. Milton Perry, and African American minister from Jersey City, New Jersey. Perry solicited the opinions of black and white Memphians on the subject of Elvis Presley. “I found,” he concluded, “than an overwhelming majority of people who know him speak of this boy as a boy who practices humility and a love for racial harmony. I learned that he is not too proud or important to speak to anyone and to spend time with his fans of whatever color, whenever and wherever they approach him.”

    Although Perry concluded that Presley had “set an example of wholesome brotherhood [and that] as an idol, he is in a position to do much good,” the contentious and spurious quotation about shining shoes and buying records was what was remembered. A southern background combined with a performing style largely associated with African Americans had led to “bitter criticism by those who feel he stole a good thing.” The damage had been done. The incident initiated the downward slide of Presley’s status within the African American community. More important, despite its questionable origins and provenance, the offending statement passed into fact. Myth had become truth. For as one black Tennesseean declared when queried about Presley in the mid-1980s, so, too have others believed: “You know what he said? All I want from blacks is for them to buy my records and shine my shoes. That’s in the record.””

    So, my apologies for your self-proclaimed hatred of the name, but I wear it proudly. I hope that a time comes that you can bring yourself to see past the name and address me and my points without that prejudice.

    As for knowing who I am, what I said was “…Well, you don’t know me, but you know my name and where I work.”

    Now to the meat of it… Thanks for clarifying.Mr. Hayward wasn’t in a position to put the law in place.

  322. “I really do have a problem with people who are calling for PATI legislation now but never called for it before, when they were in a position to put the law in place, i.e. John Barritt, Stuart Hayward, etc.

    I am not averse to PATI legislation, but I don’t like how some people are now saying it’s necessary when they didn’t think it was necessary before”.

    I appreciate Ms Furbert is giving a personal opinion. If such a view is ever the view of the Govt on the broader issues of governing – irrespective of who forms the Govt – then we might as well kiss the island goodbye.

    A stretch of the imagination I will grant you…but can you imagine….

    “So…should we repair those roads over in Somerset?”
    “Erm….did the UBP think it was necessary back in 1997?”
    “Erm…nope…don’t think they ever did”
    “Ok then – no road repairs in Somerset”.

    Next question.

    Frightening!!

  323. Son of Obatala,

    “Yo u can say wa u wanna say guilden or whateva ya real name is……just incude ya real name and contact info so the real person u talkin about can be able to reach u, n sue you for slander…that’s all…..lol Ive already told u u r mistaken, yet you persist, If you were so certain you would have “outed me “ as you say a long time ago.

    Your attempts at intimidation are not working.

    I notice that all u have been able to do in response to all of my posts have been to try n go afta me with ya nonsence instead of addressing the content of my posts…..lol So apparently in ya eyes people wit opinions who don’t use their real names are not worthy to be heard, no matter how valid their points are…..hmmm…that’s the same mentality the ubp had b4 they were outed frm government.”

    Firstly, you can be assured that Guilden is my real name, actually just for the record, I am Guilden M. Gilbert, Jr. I have provided you with my email address on this very same forum, if you wish you can email me and I will provide you with address and telephone contacts so the attorney can contact me to serve me with a sumons to appear to face charges of slander. In fact, the attorney can send it to me by courier and I will respond. I will also say please do not hesitate to have an attorney serve me because slander, by definition is an untruthful spoken statement about a person that harms the person’s reputation or standing in the community. As you are hiding behind a pen name it is kind of difficult to impact your reputation or standing in the community. Further when the truth is in black and white trying to get a charge of slander to stick is virtually impossible.

    You keep saying that you are not the person that I am referring to and as I have said in the past there can’t be too many people in Bermuda who practice Yoruba, have the same snytax in their writing and submitted a proposal under EEZ which was rejected. The probabilities of me targeting the right person are very much in my favour.

    Secondly, I have never threatened you, I do not believe in threats or intimidation so you need not worry about that and I have never said I would “out you” in fact I have said that I have no desire to “out you”, therefore, maybe YOU need to read what I write.

    As far as addressing your points, you are implying that there is some underground grassroots movement against the PLP, sorry, while there may be many people unhappy with the PLP, I do not believe it is as organised as you are claiming to be but I guess time will tell. You and Educated Pigs hanging out together outside Devonshire Rec and calling the talk shows does not evidence such a movement.

    I have not said that people who write using a pen name should have no voice when they have valid points. I actually do engage them. I simply do not believe you have raised any valid points. I simply view you as someone who feels he has been unfairly treated by the PLP Government, Bermuda Small Business Development Co. and a financial institution and because of that has an axe to grind and is simply looking for an audience to whom he can vent his frustrations. There is nothing wrong with that on the surface but at least be truthful with audience so they can determine whether or not your venting is justified.

  324. but only if it’s not true…which… well… as Guilden has pointed out… the odds of which are extremely slim…

    Martin – Only problem with your example is the inference that the ‘roads’ were fine back in 1997 ;-)… they weren’t.

  325. CO…

    A moment of flippancy on my part! Just couldn’t imagine a society that holds itself back – based in part on aspects of it’s history.

  326. Pitts Bay, I figured you and 30-something were in the Bank of Bermuda Suite. I bet you were sucking right up to the CEO, smiling in his face, while stabbing him in his back.

    I wasn’t at the Bank’s suite, however, I’m curious why you would think anyone was stabbing Mr. Butterfield in the back?

  327. 32n64w,

    That seems to be your nature, at least from what I been able to determine about you after reading your posts.

    If you weren’t in the Bank of Bermuda suite, were you sitting next to me?

  328. “Pitts Bay, I figured you and 30-something were in the Bank of Bermuda Suite. I bet you were sucking right up to the CEO, smiling in his face, while stabbing him in his back.”

    Assumptions, assumptions assumptions Ms Furbert. I actually get along with the CEO very well – who were you stabbing in the back? Have you lost track?

    Pitts Bay

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