I’ve been working on a response to Christian’s post ‘I support Obama, but not Brown’ since he published it, but with the holidays, the Gaza crisis and my studies, I haven’t had the time to finish developing that response. However, with this article in today’s RG I felt compelled to write a rather quick article. In truth, while these ‘quick articles’ have there problems (clarity, references, etc.) they have benefits in that I’m more likely to write and post them within twenty minutes and not leave them in the purgatory of draft limbo. And so, with all its warts, here’s the article:
Messrs Scott and Swan, two former Premiers, have spoken at an Imagine Bermuda event which has been reported in the RG. Due to the constraints of space and interest, it is clear that this report does not record everything they had to say, but it gives a general feel of the opinions expressed by them. The subject of their speeches may generally be regarded as looking at the Obama model as a useful one for Bermuda to replicate. This Obama model speaks directly to that constant of Bermuda politics, the leviathan that is race in Bermuda, omnipresent, even if occassionaly hidden below the surface.
Both Scott and Swan speak in glowing terms of the Obama model. Both of them agree that Bermuda needs to resolve the problem of race, and that the Obama model is potentially the vehicle with which to achieve it. What exactly that means is generally left unanswered though. And that is the problem.
Yes, Bermuda needs to resolve the race question. That is pretty much obvious to just about everyone in Bermuda, black, White, citizens and expatriates alike. How to resolve it though is the million dollar question, and one that has generally animated our politics and social development for the better part of our history, from slavery days, to segregation, to our current quagmire of institutional racism (covert as opposed to overt). This is not at all to ignore the other great currents in Bermudian politics, such as class and heterosexism and the like. But race and class, and even the politics of sex, and pretty much every other socio-political issue is very much connected to the race issue, and solving any one of them cannot in reality be fully done without resolving all of them, with race being the primary focus.
There have been a number of approaches to answering this question, of which I will only focus on some of the more predominant ones here, the UBP model, the (current) PLP model, and the socialist model.
The UBP Model
The UBP model has been the dominant trend in recent Bermudian history. I think it may basically be described as ‘don’t mention race’ combined with a sincere hope in the ‘trickle down’ theory of economics to transform Bermudian racial and class demographies. It is an inherently conservative ideology, albeit one that can prove very seductive to certain groups within our population. It is an approach that believes that articulating the fact of racial problems in our society may directly increase the scope of the racial problem. It hopes that over time, through the miracle of trickle down economics, the race question will resolve itself, and the best thing we as a society can do to help that process along is to not talk about it at all. Wedded to this is a policy of ‘colour-blindness now’ in the form of presenting a vision of a Bermuda that has no racial problems, as seen in the concerted committment of the UBP to offer parliamentary candidates that approximate the racial demographics of our country, even though this appearence directly contradicts the support base and membership of that political party, and flies in the face of UBP ideology that officially opposes affirmative action.
Mr. John Swan in his speech to the Imagine Bermuda forum essentially expresses this ideology where he says ‘People said to me: ‘You didn’t take on this racial thing.’ I didn’t take it on because I didn’t want to make Bermuda more racial.’ That right there, in a nutshell, is the UBP model in rough.
The PLP Model
The PLP model, what may arguably be more better called ‘progressive capital’ as opposed to ‘progressive labour’ is essentially a model that states that the trickle down effect is a mirage, and that not talking about a problem doesn’t make it go away but actually leaves it to fester and get worse in its periodic outbursts – instead we need to talk about it openly in order to discuss it, and we need to use the levers of the State to correct the discrepancies between our racial and class demographics. Thats the current PLP model in a nutshell. It doesn’t question the basic idea of capitalist class relations, it only wants to reduce the racial tensions resulting from our current racial disparities of the classes, and thus make Bermudian capitalism more rational, through the use of affirmative action (in the form of Government tendering practices, legislation, seed money and support for (Black) entrepeunership, and, ultimately, through correcting the public education systems that are predominantly Black in population) and articulation of the race problems. Some may see this as reverse racism, but in truth it is more about equalising the playing field through active State intervention, and not penalising or revenge. While there are indeed some questionable actions that detract from this generally positive and progressive approach (namely the Bermuda Cement Company fiasco, and a too gung ho approach as seen with the Berkely Pro-Active disaster), it is more about correcting past injustices than revenge for them. When the PLP model warns that if these actions are not taken now then there will be outbursts like the riots of the 1970s they are not making threats as some within the UBP camp suppose, but simply stating a fact that if the contradictions between our racial demographics and class demographics are mot resolved in this controlled manner, it (the contradictions themselves) will boil over in an ‘uncontrolled’ manner.
The PLP model has as its sole objective the transformation of our class demographics to reflect our race demographics. This is to be done through affirmative action and redistributive methods (i.e. education and tendering) and not through penalising, and was best articulated by Mr. Alex Scott when he said that the ‘haves will continue to have, but the have nots must have more’ and also by Dr. Brown’s statement following the 2007 election victory that the Whites do not need help, while the Blacks do (or words to that effect). These statements have been wildly misinterpreted by some within our society, to be explicit, some of the Whites, who have seen them as direct threats, when in reality it was little more than an acknowledgement of reality and the limited objectives of the PLP model.
The Socialist Model
The socialist model, in various forms, has been perhaps the most important model for change in our history, and it was the threat posed by this model to the status quo that led to the limited progressive reforms allowed under the UBP model and now under the limited objectives of the PLP model. It has essentially said that without radical economic and political democracy the race question cannot be resolved. Both the UBP and current PLP models serve to release just enough pressure in order to prevent the situation exploding and destroying the system with the intention to replace it altogether. The socialist model has challenged the very foundations of our colonial society and threatened to resolve our race and class contradictions through a fundamental reconstruction of society on the basis of racial equality and particpatory economic democracy. While in reality the early progressive labour movement was portrayed as socialist, its objectives were so watered down through the alliance of the working class with the bulk of the Black Bourgeoisie/professional class, that the PLP model of today can be clearly seen as in existence even back then. What was true though was that there were significant currents of socialist thought in the earlier progressive labour movement, and it is possible that without the limited UBP reforms that helped maintain UBP power (amongst other tactics), should the PLP have formed the government in the 1960s-1970s, these socialist currents may have had some impact and further development.
As it is the PLP of today, with a few ageing exceptions, is largely devoid of socialist currents, even if a vague socialist ideal remains within its rank and file. The Black Power (Black Beret Cadre) movement itself was more or less a manifestation of socialist thought, heavily influenced by the tactics of the USA Black Panther Party and national liberation movements throughout the third-world (notably the ANC, Nkrumah and Nyerere African Socialism and Castrosim). The socialist model remains a potent threat to the status quo, and manifests itself occassionaly in various forms of grassroots discontent and disillussionment with the limited goals of the PLP model after a decade of power.
The Obama Model
Now that we’ve reviewed the main models in Bermuda for resolving the race question, it is now possible to give a summary of the Obama model and then compare it with the three noted above.
The Obama model is one that has expressly sought to avoid the race issue altogether. In many respects it has bent over backwards to distance itself from the race question, as best evidenced by the Obama campaign distancing itself from the statements of Reverend Jeremy Wright. Reverend Wright’s statments explicitly talked about the race situation in the USA as well as a number of other contradictions about US imperial power, both domestic and foreign. The Obama campaign not only explicitly severed its relations with Wright, it also hyped up the fact that it had no race model at all, other than showing that ‘the audacity of hope’ as expressed by Mr. Obama’s career proved that the trickle down effec tcould work, that the system wasn’t racist, that Obama was not like those others (like Jesse Jackson or Malcom X) that may be called ‘angry’ Black political leaders, and the election victory of Obama reinforced these values. His campaign, through its explicit avoidance of the race issue, and the reaction in the media before and since, is essentially an attempt of ‘racial reconciliation on the cheap.’ Mr. Obama’s career history and successes are more examples of exceptions to the role, and, if anything, serve to reinforce covert institutional racism in the US.
The Obama model, quite frankly, is virtually identical to the UBP model. It is one that avoids the race issue altogether, it is a model that represents what the UBP has been doing for decades, with a Black candidate for an overwhelmingly White Party explicitly avoiding the race issue in articulation and substance for political gain, and serves to reinforce a covert institutional racial system.
That virtually all of the PLP uncritically supported the Obama campaign only proves the bankruptcy of critical thought within the Party. That equally solid Obama support from the UBP, let alone the parrallels between the UBP and Obama models failed to set off any alarm bells within the PLP only serves to reinforce the bankruptcy of PLP critical thinking. This has given the UBP and its supporters a golden opportunity with which to attack the PLP, as seen by comments from UBP leaders (Grant Gibbons, Kim Swan, Michael Dunkley for example) and its online supporters (such as Christian Dunleavy).
This does not mean that the PLP model itself is bankrupt, far from it. The PLP model is inherently more progressive than the UBP model in that it will reduce the contradictions of our race problems, and will rationalise our capitalist system by reducing racial friction. The UBP model cannot be put back into power, but the slavish devotion to Obamaism from the PLP does serfve to indicate problems in the future due to its failure of critical thought.
The Obama model would represent a step backwards, towards UBPism, for Bermuda. Its adoption, after a manner, by the PLP serves to indicate a more or less complete transition away from critical thought and lays bare both its limited objectives and ideological bankruptcy. The PLP model, as articulated above, will continue, and it will successively lead to complete ideological hegemony over the UBP model. But it leaves open the potential for a revival fo the socialist model, as its failure to do anything more than rationalise Bermudian capitalism faces criticism from the grassroots disillussioned with PLPism but with no intentions to replace it with the corpse of UBPism.
Avoiding the race issue will not solve it. The PLP model can only lessen some of the more obvious contradictions, but will only lead to new ones.
"catch a fire" 
The UBP model is irrilevent, they will never get into power again and they will never be an effective opposition because they are accepting bribes in the form of all these back door government contracts to be silent as they…government.. steal us…the taxpayer, blind. Some 1 is gonna say …wheres de proof?…go n research,these contracts are public record!!!!!
More proof?…recall the forigner ID card? REcall how Senator burch called out the ubp guy….”y are you complaining you have a contract”. A smart opposition wouldnt accept any government contracts….that way they wont be held to ransom or be in a position to get blackmaled!!
Corruption!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If we had a media with BALLS the public would know these things!!
The PLP had their chance to bring obama style change since 98…they have sold out and they are now the new UBP.
The people in the PLP now… who were part of the socialist movement back in tha day…. including the premier have ALLL sold out. The true leaders have been kicked out of the party or have been put in exile becsuse they are not the premiers yes men/women.
To bad we cant achieve a military coup and give the power back to tha people…black n white.
Race is an issue here because no one has healed from slavery…not the blacks and not the whites, and none on either side are willing to make any government do whats nessicary to heal the country by changing how we teach ALL of our children in our schools by injecting a fully multicultural educational system that breaks the whitesupremist educational system we have all grown up in.
African bermudians still choose to be and act like slaves because even though they are free… they dont wish to regain their culture as africans, and only wish to be a success in the whitemans world. And whites still choose to act and be like slave masters cause they dont want to back the various social reforms needed to fix this society….and cause they choose not to accept and acknowledge and begin to effect repairs on the side effects of their ancestors actions…their modern day legacy.
Its this statis quo, combined with a 50 yrs history of corrupt governments that play 1 side against the other by focusing on our collective weakness….RACE…..which is ment to distract us from the real game they are playing…. rich against poor…class distinction, and elietism….these things are not color based.
The PLP model is bankrupt cause its not workin for ALL and its only working for their crew of insiders…jus like the 40thieves looked out for their own.
The obama model feeds on the peoples desire for change in running the system of government in the usa….I think its a load of crap myself….just like the hope for change in 98 here wit de PLP ended up being a load of crap…but time will tell as far as obama…im not holding my breath on him actually delivering, because at the end of the day…the people in the USA DO NOT CONTROL THEIR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT…they dont control senators..congress …nor does obama..hes jus 1 guy, who ultimately has to ansa to the people pulling his puppet strings!
Just like the PEOPLE IN BERMUDA DO NOT CONTROL THEIR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT…..its not power to the people but power to the corrupt governments in both countries.
Bermudas system is messed up cause the people are messed up in the head and dont hold its politicians accountable for anything.
No POLITICIAN CAN OR SHOULD B TRUSTED….NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOW!…Knowone can be trusted? Military coups….I think you have some serious issues or are you just playing semantics and pulling a “Tigga”?
Re=read what you just wrote. Your talking insurection..to benefit whom?
Ouch.
ok…….Y do I have to have serious issues for expressin a point of view? Wa serious issues am I supposed to have? Wa is pulling a tigga? define semantics.
A military coup would unfortunately not be successful. While it may indeed succeed in seizing power, it would fail to construct a new society for a number of reasons. For one thing, means do determine ends, and a coup through force would only replace one group of ‘massa’ with a new one – those who seized power. It could conceivably succeed IF there was a series of general strikes and a state of dual power, between autonomous workers and neighbourhood councils versus institutional state power is resolved through the last prop of the state power, armed force, goes over to the revo. But a military coup without a period of mass democratisation preceding it only replaces one group of leaders with another one. Furthermore, the US military would rush to intervene in a matter of hours, and it is virtually impossible for us to defeat such an invasion, the best we could do would be to arm every citizen and fight a camapaign of urban guerrilla warfare, but even that would not last long. Also, we have virtually no resources other than our islands natural beauty and labour force, and at that we do not have enough agricultural capacity to sustain our population. We are dependent on external market functions, largely tourism and international business, both of which would exit quickly in the event of a military coup, crippling the economy, and eroding whatever popular support the coup may have enjoyed.
A military coup, though easily executed here (trust me on that one), would not succeed in effecting the change you desire. The only path for such transition, barring a revo in a Europe or North America which could then sustain a revo here, is for dedicated work of building consciousness coupled with building the infrastructure of independent social movements here.
Obatala, just keep listening to Johnny and you will be fine. As his last paragraph states it would be a peace of piss too do it but what happens after that? Nothing left. Night farming improves but knowone to plant the seed or tend the fields.
Forget it.
Johnny,
I think we’ve been down this street before. We know that the PLP’s model isn’t successful and neither is the UBP’s. We need a fundamental change (gosh even I’m starting to sound like Obama,)which would mean a redistribution of wealth. For example, we would take land from rich white folks that inherited their riches from salvery and colonialism, and give it to black folks who were oppressed during that time. However, you’ve admitted in prior posts that this is unlikely to ever happen. Which leaves the question: Why talk about race when things will always remain the same? – white folks will continue to benefit as a result of history while blacks will remain unchanged.
However, blacks nowadays do have a chance at success. Indeed, if they study hard, apply themselves and work hard, they will be rewarded. We cannot rewrite history but we can do things to improve our future.
Government’s duty is to give people an equal opportunity at success. This is done by revamping the public education system. For example, when I was in University (about 2 yrs ago) I came home over spring break. I had an essay due the following week and I thought it would be a good idea to write the paper here in Bermuda. I thought between the Public Library in Hamilton and Bermuda College, I would find all the necesary resources. WRONG! The public library and no academic textbooks. No Samuel Huntington, no Karl Marxs, no Robert Putnam, nothing, zip, nadda. Instead the public library was filled with story books and fiction while the Bermuda College was a complete let down. Bermuda College’s textbooks, on average, were about 30-40 years old and unless you were looking for finance textbooks, you were out of luck. How can we as a society look to improve our human capital by using, when available, out of date textbooks?! This is the sort of change we need. This is something government can due to improve the quality of life for the people of Bermuda not just by simply redistributing the wealth or talking about race.
I’m out.
Justin
Any act of violence would work to send a warning but these things are better off carried out than talked about in Columbia, Trinidad it happens Bermuda needs a hero.
Before that the Conservative Tories and the republicans should be ask to talk with the corrupt educated pigs in the government.
The hell with Obama he is just a punk. Like Arnold said, “He needs some muscles!”
His message however was African socialism but he already backtracked on taxing over $250000 income earners. Whites understand politics blacks just vote for race. Look at that fool Mugabe.
Brown is a capitalist elite pig along with the whole PLP cabinet.
Too busy stealing to help the people.
Just a couple of things…
Justin,
“For example, we would take land from rich white folks that inherited their riches from salvery and colonialism, and give it to black folks who were oppressed during that time”
How would you decide who these people are and provide proof of this inheritance?
Also, when you say colonialism, I’m not sure what you mean. From my reading, “Colonialism” has an aspect of subjugation of an indigenous people. There were none here.
How many “rich white folks” are there still around that have land that they got through slavery? I may be completely wrong, but, as far as I can see, a lot of Bermuda’s land has been bought and sold SINCE slavery was abolished.
Who gets to decide whether or not these “rich white folks” indeed DID get their riches from slavery?
Do black folks that WEREN’T oppressed during that time (I won’t even get into the whole idea that anyone that was opressed during slavery is long dead!) get any of this redistribution? Folks descended from people from the Caribbean or the States or England or even Africa… is there a responsibility for these “rich white folks” to redistribute their wealth to them?
How about white folks that DIDN’T inherit their riches from slavery and colonialism? Is there no responsibility there?
“Which leaves the question: Why talk about race when things will always remain the same? – white folks will continue to benefit as a result of history while blacks will remain unchanged.”
This is exactly the reason to talk about race. So that the mistakes of history will not be repeated. So that we ALL look at how history has affected how we look at things.
How can you say “blacks will remain unchanged”? If you can’t see the unimaginable changes that have occurred in the past several decades, I’m not sure what books you’re reading, what movies you’re watching and what tv shows you’re watching. I just can’t fathom where a sentence like this comes from.
Educated Pig,
“Whites understand politics blacks just vote for race. Look at that fool Mugabe.”
Not only is the first part of what you’re saying a racist generalization, when added to the second part, it shows an incredible ignorance of the situation in Zimbabwe.
This comment is ridiculous and offensive.
Uncle Elvis,
You’re preaching to the choir. I agree wholeheartedly with your statements. Indeed, there’s no real way to trace wealth back to the slavery days. Therefore it makes no sense to have these meaningless discussions about race. I even agreed that we can’t rewrite history, but we can make an attempt today to make the future better for all people in Bermuda (this is where I began my rant about education). Sure I can probably give you a few names that I would be willing to be bet that their head start in life was a result of slavery and consequently property acquired many moons ago. Those surnames would be Cooper, Trimingham, Butterfield, Gosling, and Gibbons. You know, that old slave money.
However, what’s done is done. History can’t be changed and it’s nearly impossible to make an attempt to redistribute wealth. Instead, we need a system that works. A system that produces the highest human capital just like how we have the highest GDP per capita. This is how we can bring about prosperity. It’s not about redistribution of wealth, instead it’s about giving people a chance. After all, a fool can become wealthy but only a smart person will be able to sustain their wealth.
Thanks for your response and I hope my reply clarifies everything.
Peace.
Justin
You:
However, with this article in today’s RG I felt compelled to write a rather quick article. In truth, while these ‘quick articles’ have there problems (clarity, references, etc.) they have benefits in that I’m more likely to write and post them within twenty minutes and not leave them in the purgatory of draft limbo.
Me: Dear JS. You have many virtues. One of them is not brevity of style. You have the socialist disease. You are not consice. It would help. I can not claim I am much better but I don’t have it like you lefties do. You have much to say but people would read it more if you could make it shorter and richer. This is like the cardinal sin for people like you and me who like writing. We must strive to do better.
Hemingway Short Story:
For Sale. Baby Carriage. Never used.
What can I say, so much to do, so little time!
But I do try all the same, better out than in you know… The main focus though has been to avoid jargon and focus on clarity, the next focus is on brevity…
As for reparations, although many people think reparations are a cheque written from the rich Whites made out to the poor Blacks, this is not what I mean by it, nor what the PLP with their limited objectives mean by it, nor what most organisations campaigning for reparations mean by it. Keeping in mind what Civil Monster has just written above, I’ll try and do this concise:
PLP reparations – positive discrimination (MINUS negative discrimination) combined with limited redistributive policies focused more on levelling the playing field through correcting the problems in education. End goal to make our class system reflect our race demographics.
Me, minimal – Progressive income tax with fuunds going to heavy funding of social services, mainly focused on universal quality education, universal quality healthcare (focused on preventative healthcare) and quality housing for all.
Me, maximum – Full bottom-up popular economic and political democracy; bottom-up socialism.
Of course, there are more issues in there, but thats it in short.
Positive discrimination? Is that like positive racism?
There are many people who attack the concept on that basis. I would rather look at it as not taking anything from the historically advantaged group, but actively assisting the historically disadvantaged group. That was why I explicitly included the ‘minus negative discrimination’ – the Whites will not be discriminated against, but the Blacks will be assisted.
There are many who would argue that this amounts to reverse racism and runs contrary to the ideals of ‘colour-blindness’ as they understand the message of the civil rights movement. However those people, especially those that wax lyrical about MLKing and his message, forget that the civil rights leaders, and explicitly MLKing, noted that the colour-blind society must be the end goal but in order to achieve it the injustices of the past need to be rectified, by which they (including King) advocated a form of reparation mixing heavy investment in social services across the board combined with active positive discrimination for those historically actively negatively discriminated.
what assistance r blacks getting? I aint got none n i went looking for it….its all hype, smoke n mirrors.
Hi SoO,
The PLP is actively pursuing developments in the North Hamilton EEZ, as well as through increasing educational scholarships, tendering practices, apprentice/internships and supporting entrepeunerial endeavours as part of this policy. While I personally question the speed and scope of these plans I don’t think you can deny they exist and are an improvement on past practices.
Having said that, without knowing more about what and how you went about seeking this assistance all we have to go by is your anomynous angry quotes. I’m afraid they are not enough. It could be you are just making stuff up – personally I don’t believe that to be the case. However, other possibilities need to be explored, like what was your plan, how did you present it, how did you go about with your seeking it? You cannot just wake up one day, think of an idea, and walk into some Ministerial office and demand to have everything done for you on the basis of your idea. Should you do that, the best possible outcome is that someone will take you to the side, say something like, ‘you know what, thats a good idea. But you need to write up a business plan – here’s a template base it on; you need to think what it is we can do for you, tell us how we can help you, you know, stuff like that. Lets make an appointment and we can work on that together.’ The worst thing is that you will be disregarded as full of rage and a nutjob and shown the door.
There are of course many other possibilities here, I’ve only just put forward two above. Please feel free to expand.
im not going to discuss specifics on here…..if u want to give me an email address ill talk to u there. All im gonna say here is that the scheems you talk about are not workin for all n people are sacrificing their hard earned money and time following directions that get them no result…..people who are saying these scheems are workin should go n apply for themselves to actually see what applicants go through, and experience the so called help they get.
Fair enough
Hi Jonathan,
I came across this letter in the Jamaica Gleaner. I think you’ll find it most interesting.
LaVerne Furbert
Inadequate Obama analysis
Published: Sunday | January 18, 2009
The Editor, Sir:
In her January 17 letter, Kay Osbourne of Television Jamaica proclaims the coming of the Obama presidency like it was the second coming of Christ!
No doubt Osbourne means well, but her apparent insights into what change a mixed-race American in the White House will bring are more than a little naïve. What a jackfruit of pandering, ridiculous misconceptions spring from the paragraphs therein!
In the first place, the power shift she suggests will happen is a figment of her imagination. The democratic machine that put him in office, she has apparently already forgotten, is also the one that destroyed the candidacy of Hillary Clinton and did so quite deliberately, so as to exclude a woman from the same office.
Second, the notion that white and black Americans will have to find new ways to deal with each other based upon what happens in Washington is also just a little overstated. In fact, a better argument is that Obama’s race, his being only half ‘African American’ and half ‘white’, does not really qualify him to represent either group, let alone force a change in attitudes on either side, particularly with respect to their long history of subtle, divisive and self-destructive conflict.
Racial make-up
As we all know, but as both races so often seem to want to forget, to call him black or even an African American is offensive to some in both groups simply because it reminds them that to the white majority, anyone that obviously is not ‘totally’ white and has any apparent mix of African American in their racial make-up today still is, as they have historically been, labelled a Negro, coloured person, black or African American depending upon what group you are in or which term was politically correct at the time.
Finally, let me remind us all that racism is not a political event and that Abraham Lincoln freed the slave population in the South after the war between the states on paper and not in the hearts of most sou-therners. Today, more than 250-plus years later, as sad as it sounds, the hearts and minds and racist attitudes of their descendants are not going to change simply because more new CNN anchor persons may take on a ‘darker’ shade than they had last month.
I am, etc.,
ED MCCOY
Educated Pigs,
“Whites understand politics blacks just vote for race.”
Nice to that race relations in Bermuda has truly advanced. I guess us black folk are just to stupid to know any better, thanks for the remind Massa.
Guilden,
Don’t judge all by the comments of the one. *grin*
Educated Pig’s statement was ignorant and offensive in the eyes of a lot of us white folks, too!
To say that “whites understand politics” is as idiotic as saying “blacks just vote for race”. It’s an apples and oranges comparison. If the supposition is that a group votes only because of race, it certainly applies to both sides (keeping in mind the fact that people vote AGAINST things, as well as FOR them). If the supposition is that a group understands politics, then THAT has to apply to both sides as well.
In addition, the divisive basing of the suppositions on race… well that’s just disgusting.
SoO,
[i]what assistance r blacks getting? I aint got none n i went looking for it….its all hype, smoke n mirrors.[/i]
Just checking. Are you saying that, because YOU didn’t get assistance (in some indeterminate way), that NOBODY got any?
Isn’t that like saying “I didn’t get a decent education, so that means that black people are uneducated”?
Or “Educated Pig’s comments are racially prejudiced, so all white people are racists”?
i didnt say that. elvis…..i thought wa i said in follow up to john was quite clear if you take tha time to read u wouldnt make such a stupid comment…just cheking elvis…r u onna dese asshole type people dat jus like to say shit to try n piss people off?
I have my degree which may as well be toilet paper here so yes in bermuda im uneducated, n workin in blue colar sector. Further more none of you know the ethnic background of this educated pigs person…funny how hes a racist for basically sayin wa a lot have said after the race based aftermath of the last election….vast majority of blacks voted plp…even though the so called election had no content on issues but was solely on race..IE…”vote for ubp = goin back to plantation”.so how is pigs wrong? That was the result.
Blacks in bermuda dont get politics…their vote is neither leveraged or consolidated to get what they want from out of this system, and as a result these politicians, dont value their vote after an election has been won..n thats been the trend for 50yrs now..Jus look at the pile of social issues that still go untouched, just look how the majority of the voters who are not makin the wages in the highes percapita income country in the world are not getting that money to get them above the 70k per yr mark that brings them above poverty line.
they dont leverage their voting power to make the politicians create laws to change how whites still get paid higher than blacks….no reform in education for multicultural education, no manditory overtime pay, no accountability from government, no control on how they waste tax money.
Pigs is quite correct, and just a few months ago people were greeing with his comment…now we have whites callin him racist..cowards…this is crazy ironic n crazy funny to me….lol
SOB, your making sense really. What took you so long to post here?
Cahow,
Maybe you have a project that Son of Obatala (SOO) can work on. Or maybe you know someone else that is looking for his skills. I notice that you shortedned “Son Of Obatala” (SOO) to “SOB”. Is there a reason for that?
“combined with active positive discrimination for those historically actively negatively discriminated”
There’s that phrase again positive discriminaton, when in truth its discrimination, you want to discriminate against someone based on their skin colour. How is that any different than the historic injustices you seek to correct?
Johnny, you cast the UBP program as being one of a rising standard living buying off black rage. Thats quite correct. Swan had no interest in improving race relations. The racial situation kept the UBP in power.
But then you let the PLP off by saying their program is one of empowerment of blacks. Further down you make a list of very weak programs that were supposed to do this. Education is supposed to be a central part of this effort. With respect, by putting the two systems side by side we can see that the UBP model is clearly more successful. At least they actually did it. Coming up on ten years in power for the PLP and education is worse ( is that possible? ) than it was under the UBP.
Your other stated tool of empowerment employed by the PLP was to be contracting. Do I have to go on? I think S.O.O. covered that.
You make a section called “The Socailist model” But then don’t tell us what the socialist model was. You seem to define it by saying “It has essentially said that without radical economic and political democracy the race question cannot be resolved.” Well a lot people have said that, not just socialists. You then say there were socialist currents in the early PLP. I have also heard such rumours. It would appear the socialist tendency had absolutely no impact in Bermuda what so ever. I heard that there was some reticence in PLP to betray their Marxist principles by not going to church. These was swiftly buried in the interest of political survival. But you say socialism was there. You imply there was a model. For Bermuda? Where? How? You don’t say.
Your last section “The Obama Model” is completely confusing to me. Yes everyone in the States is shouting about how unracist they are now. And it won’t be long before the Mexicans are being discriminated against. And the US will do it all again when they vote in a Mexican.
Obama isn’t a model. Obama isn’t a black as many would wish him to be. What he really is, is a man with black skin who apparently has spent his life preparing to be the president of the United States. He’s so f’ing smart, he’s got a plan, its based in reality and that really is a huge difference to the last eight years. Americans didn’t vote for Obama because he’s black. They voted for him because they didn’t have a choice. It was him or Hilary ( same old incompetence and democratic waffling ) or McCain – nice guy when he’s taking his pills but he’s a republican. Americans are thinking, “Obama’s a scarey ride but he might get us through ok. Oh and he’s black. Yeah. That makes us feel good about ourselves. We’ve had no reason to do that lately.”
Obama is not going to be famous for being the first black president. He isn’t that now. The symbolism is all for show. Obama is the first president after the terrible Bush. What he does in the next 100 days is far more than the colour of any skin or any history. Make a model about that.
Its what he does that matters. And Obama is a doer, ain’t he. He’s a fire breather. The UBP, the PLP, the socialist ( if there were any ) are not doers. Oh wait. Jack Tucker was a doer. And some of the early PLP guys were able to make their anger into concrete achievements. But we don’t do the Obama model in Bermuda. We go along to get along as long as the money comes. Thats our model. And to hell with the kids. Let em teach themselves.
Long again. I suck.
Civil Monster,
Well said.
Civil,
See? Its hard to keep everything short isn’t it! Lol!
I think that the UBP and PLP models are essentially the same, although the limited goal of rationalising the class/race system is more progressive than the UBP one in that it will, in the long-term (a) reduce the racial friction of the system; & (b) lead to a change away from race politics to class politics, a process already well-advanced. I don’t think its totally fair to say that the UBP model was better, there is a certain scope of ‘learning by doing’ to factor in, as well as the fact that much of the UBP successes were co-optations of PLP proposals, and the education system and the housing situation were made problematic under UBP bungling. I do however agree that the PLP should have done alot more in its decade of power than it has, especially on these two areas.
As for the socialist model, I guess in the hope of brevity I sacrificed some clarity. I referenced the Black Beret Cadre as one of the clearest manifestations of socialistic thought, and they were essentially a local chapter of the US-based Black Panther Party. While their programme would have been adapted for the Bermuda situation, I think its clear that the Black Panther programme would serve as the bulk of the Beret’s programme. The BBP were essentially a Marxist-Maoist ideological grouping of Black Nationalism, and did have very advanced and progressive positions despite their public caricature as violent Black supremacists which is quite far from the truth. The official site of the BBP contain some good examples of the BBP programme, and I reccomend it for getting a sense of what the Black Beret Cadre was proposing. Their site is http://www.blackpanther.org/ (please note that it is not unusual for this site to be blocked by certain organisations firewall). It is important to stress, and I’m not going to lecture about here as it would take too long, that there was a split between two main factions of the Party, between a more grassroots socialist wing (led by Newton) and a more Black cultural nationalist wing.
Additionally, in the mid-1970s, the then Youth Wing of the PLP split from the Party blasting it as being reformist and sell-outs. They promptly founded the Bermuda Socialist Party and for some years served as a thorn in the side of the PLP, publishing a newsletter and other propaganda. As far as I can tell they never contested an election, focusing more on consciousness raising and organising grassroots community projects. It went defunct shortly after the US invasion of Grenada, and the NLP split from the PLP. Most of its members rejoined or became PLP supporters in the 1990s. Some of their literature still exists, but it is very hard to get a hold of them.
As for some examples of socialist influences within the PLP and their successes in Bermuda as a whole, I think one must include Dr. Roosevelt Brown and the Committee for Universal Adult Sufferage (CUAS) as a prime example. Comrade Robbie Lynch was also a potent force, and was heavily involved in the Theatre Boycott actions. Sister Barbara Ball is another prominent example of socialists within the labour movement. There are plenty more who have had an impact in our peoples development.
As for what I meant by radical political and economic demorcracy, I was calling for a fundamental restructuring of society along the basis of grassroots workers and neighbourhood councils to replace the existing ‘formal’ parliamentary political democracy and the capitalist hierrachical model of economics.
I don’t see what is so confusing about my analogy of an Obama model. Obama himself is just a man like anyone else, but how he came to power, as a Black candidate for a mostly White political party, explicitly avoiding anything more than White-palatable empty rhetoric on race and deliberate distancing from anything that may be unpalatable to Whites but closer to the truth about race in the USa (Reverend Wright), may be abstracted as a model for politics and race issues. The closest approximation to that model in Bermuda would be the UBP model and NOT the PLP model.
J Galt,
The difference is that negative discrimination, which was historically practiced against Blacks by Whites, combined with active positive discrimination for Whites, has led to the institutional class/race problems in our society today. We can choose to ignore that reality and hope that over time the class/race system will simply balance itself out. The practical results of that approach is a largely mixed bag, with some marginal (‘exceptions to the rule’) increase of Blacks in the upper class and managerial positions, but with a general inertia of Blacks stuck in the lower class/blue collar positions. One must stress also that while the negative discrimination against Blacks has largely been dismantled, at least formally and increasingly socially/mentally, there has continued to be positive discrimination for Whites (old boys networks for example).
The difference then is that positive discrimination in favour of Blacks will not entail negative discrimination against Whites (for one thing its not about revenge but moving on and healing, and also, we’ve seen the social and psychological trauma that negative discrimination brings about and we don’t want it). Its about equalising the playing field by helping those who have been shackled to throw off the shackles, and not about shackling those who historically haven’t been in order to equalise.
Is it discrimination based on race? Yes. Is it racism as a system of active prejudice and systematic oppression and exploitation of a people based on racial theories of superiority/inferiority? No. Its about cleaning up the mess brought about by centuries of systematic racism, continued by inertia. Its about building the colour-blind society, recognising that reality right now is not colour-blind except formally.
Johnny, I have enjoyed your comments here even though it takes two days to read and digest. Personally, I am not with your socialist outlook.
Ever since you left Bermuda your voice has been heard more loudly. And that reminds me of Fidel. Better to keep him alive and know whats going on then to replace and/or be replaced.
You will never come back to Bermuda and be a major or minor force in any political party unless you bring the Royal Inniskillers (sp)..they did a great job here in the 60’s.
Laverne, that was a spelling mistake on my part but as usual you still took it the wrong way and try to spin things. And yes, I have a job for your Son as is quite obvious by your comments. Fruit and trees.
i didnt say that. elvis…..i thought wa i said in follow up to john was quite clear if you take tha time to read u wouldnt make such a stupid comment…just cheking elvis…r u onna dese asshole type people dat jus like to say shit to try n piss people off?
Which is why I asked the question. I didn’t make a statement, I was asking for clarification. I DID take the time to read your response and it still wasn’t clear, so I asked.
If YOU had taken the time to read, you wouldn’t have to lash out like this.
As for YOUR question… no, that’s not the kind of asshole that I am.
I have my degree which may as well be toilet paper here so yes in bermuda im uneducated, n workin in blue colar sector.
Again, you didn’t read. I wasn’t saying that you were uneducated. I was giving an example of something that’s as ludicrous as what I thought you were saying.
Further more none of you know the ethnic background of this educated pigs person…funny how hes a racist for basically sayin wa a lot have said after the race based aftermath of the last election….vast majority of blacks voted plp…even though the so called election had no content on issues but was solely on race..IE…”vote for ubp = goin back to plantation”.so how is pigs wrong? That was the result.
But that’s not what he said. He said that “White people understand politics, black people vote based on race. Again, my previous comments explain the problem I have with this comment. Maybe you should take your own advice and read the other comments.
Blacks in bermuda dont get politics…their vote is neither leveraged or consolidated to get what they want from out of this system, and as a result these politicians, dont value their vote after an election has been won..n thats been the trend for 50yrs now..Jus look at the pile of social issues that still go untouched, just look how the majority of the voters who are not makin the wages in the highes percapita income country in the world are not getting that money to get them above the 70k per yr mark that brings them above poverty line.
This is a gross generalization and misrepresents reality.
As for wages… um… I’m white, got a good job, doing pretty well and I don’t make 70K+ per year. Am I living in poverty? Not really.
Are you actually saying in this sentence that the majority of Bermudians are living under the poverty line? It seems like that’s what you’re saying. I’m just checking.
they dont leverage their voting power to make the politicians create laws to change how whites still get paid higher than blacks….no reform in education for multicultural education, no manditory overtime pay, no accountability from government, no control on how they waste tax money.
Pigs is quite correct, and just a few months ago people were greeing with his comment…now we have whites callin him racist..cowards…this is crazy ironic n crazy funny to me….lol
You’re rewriting what was said. a) I never “greed” with his comment, ever. I would never make a gross generalization based on race like that. b) I never called him a racist. I think the comment was racially prejudiced (regardless of his own skin colour) and said so.
Just curious as to why you call me a coward (if I am the person you’re referring to when you say “cowards”). I’m not the one ranting in secret, hiding behind a pseudonym. I USE a pen name, but my identity is public knowledge. How is me saying that making over the top negative generalizations based on race is racially prejudiced cowardly?
Or are “u onna dese asshole type people dat jus like to say shit to try n piss people off?”
Blacks are dumb in politics in East Africa the Caribbean and America. Politics is white trash really blacks dont understand it very few have passed an economics course like me. They only understand slogans and emotions.
Why would Oprah support paying higher taxes just to sleep with Obama? Racial prostitution. But it feels good. Godfather politics in the West indies waiting three terms to kick out PNP thieves in Jamaica. Waiting thirty years to kick out the UBP in Bermuda.
Now people thing they own the Government. The Government is the Premeir his cabinet and nerds in the Senate. If David Chapman was found with dumb dumbs the black middle class wont understand why education has failed the youth because of lack of affordable housing. The is some serious lack of comprehension when blacks salute Martin Luther King and Sally Bassett.
In the UK income is 40% in Bermuda 0% That Dreadlocks from St. Georges had bull eye target posted in the gazette 1998 election why? Blacks are dumb greedy and useless in politics. we might as well vote white.
Piggy: Blacks are dumb greedy and useless in politics
Me: You mean like Americans? They voted in George Jr, the feel good boy. They tolerated massive spending, failed to inform themselves of the reality in the ME, and allowed the economy to grow on funny credit. Like all Bermudians they don’t care about education. If Blacks are dumb and greedy in politics, they are going to have to get in line. Probably with the rest of the human race. Everyone wants a piece of the government and they don’t want to have to think for it. The UBP had a couple smart guys with 3am courage who could out think anybody. But they were few and most of the time no one listened to them. Sound like the PLP? Yup!
The only thing worse than a politician is a voter.
Unbelieveable, the mind-boggling things you’re saying!
“That Dreadlocks had bulls eye target posted in the gazette 1998 election why?”
Because some UBP supporters paid for a newspaper campaign to point out, or target, things that they found wrong with the PLP’s platform and candidates.
However, the next bit you posted negates any hope that you want to talk about things. This is just awful, awful, racist trolling and it disgusts me.
If we dont have income and with the corrupt selfish administration we have now i understand why, whites still complain about increased social programs for blacks in the U.K. we would get better services. We stupid blacks should be at financial assistance with baseball bats demanding the money the government has stole from us but we just vote for blacktrash politicans.
The only reason whites join the PLP are to put a baby bottle in the mouth of racism, steal contracts and keep or obtain Bermuda status. Mike Winfield is a joke.
Keys on my laptop are sticking so thats the reason for the apparent spellin errors….all part of being poor in bermuda….lol
elvis…firstly since u say i mis interperted ya comments my appoligies..I have a very low tolerance for bullshit…percieved or real…. especially with my political experiences in trying to get ahead in my own country…hence my snapping at you.
…my comments on wa pigs first stated were what I got out of it my opinon of it…isnt it the official government stance that in this society if you are makin under 70k per ys you are livin in the red zone and in the poverty line..thats the figure ive been hearing banded about..now if it is a gross misrepresentation..i didnt create it..im repeating wa ive heard in media and from various advocated of the working poor
..i didnt call u a coward specifically, but im calling the people who have a problem with educated pigs comment on how blacks in bermuda vote on race vs voting on the issues and voting for an effective, socially just, open/transparent, non corrupt, truly progressive, refom oriented government.
As i said and as was proven in the last election…the plp won based on race baiting and clearly not on the issues …many have stated this fact..many of u who post here…just cause educated pigs dont say it in de nice sugary candy coated nice kiss ass way that bermudians like…dont make his comment no less true…because it did after all happen….thats what I call cowerdace.
I agree with pigs….blacks in bermuda have very litttle knowledge of succesfully using their political capital to acieve their collective objectives what will benifit the entire black community…the history proves this. He jus said it in a more non politically correct or …straight up fashion. so i guess im predjsuced against my own race to for pointing out a clear area that we have not matured in what so ever….so be it!!
Moving on….Ive just caught up with the latest Obama hype…..
Im wondering if the crooked politicians from bermuda who attended the new presidents corrination, have been affected by the event on a core level…. Im wondering if they have been inspired to be like obama, and mirror his leadership, and truly live up to the title progressive labor party or if they are going to continue with their corrupt, stuffing their n their friends pockets ways.
I also wonder who the “obama leader” is within both parties and outside of the parties….i can speak with certainty that none of the past leaders have been the obama style leader…and definately none of the present leaders are….and with the current climate within the plp as far as persons who may pose any threat to the former black panther member n leader dr brown, How can any obama type even come to the surface of the leadership while he only keeps thoese he can control or keep under his thumb or who are spineless yes men n women… in positions as mps and senators?
Im also wondering if the people of BErmuda would be better served if we reach out to Obama on our own on a collective level to bring to his attention how life here is not equal for all, so he can bring his considerable influence to the table and embarass these local politicians and the ones in the uk who have been doing such a poor watch dog job in making sure that the Bermudian dream is acessable to all and that the playing field here in indeed level, and that we have a non corrupt government!!
As the sellout politicians in the plp used to say back when they werent sellouts…”power to the people”
Oh. Let us not encourage the americans to look at our situation any more than they have to. We have made a living by slipping under the radar. “quo fata ferunt” is a very good motto. Besides, ussually if the americans decide your country need adjusting, the first thing they do is bomb you.
lol……perhaps a well placed smart bomb will help things here more than you realise…..lol
But seriously…what do we have to loose by hollarin
@ obama?….plp have sold us out….upb is worthless…uk mp are worthless….commenwealth office is worthless…they choose to not investigate here in the so called review…..the govenor is here jus for a paycheck….our system is corrupt n broken….and other countries who have such an imbalance on the social and economic sides are in much more kaos…as far as civil unrest.
We r certainly not goin under the radar any more with the various us and other foreign country reviews of their tax structures and reeling in the stray fish…(internatnational companies) back to their shores…..and only some have made a good / great living via “us” slipping unda de radar…hey i know…y not have an investigative news group…60mins perhaps….come down here n do a story here…that can go a long way to turnin on the spotlight and forceing changes by embarassing these lot…
that motto sucks in my opinion…it basically sums up the past 50yrs politically and the mindset of black people here…we jus go whe de wind blows us….“quo fata ferunt”
I for 1 like controlling my ship!
“what assistance r blacks getting? I aint got none n i went looking for it….its all hype, smoke n mirrors.”
“im not going to discuss specifics on here…..if u want to give me an email address ill talk to u there. All im gonna say here is that the scheems you talk about are not workin for all n people are sacrificing their hard earned money and time following directions that get them no result…..people who are saying these scheems are workin should go n apply for themselves to actually see what applicants go through, and experience the so called help they get.”
Son of O… Does this application process include attempting to bribe a Government official??
CO,
Don’t you mean a very Senior Government official and since he was flatly rejected he has decided to spread his propaganda? Surely he should be aware that Bermuda is a small place and there are very little deeds that can be kept secret. At some point the truth will come out, especially when one is not telling to full story.
Well it looks like the storm has started, lets see where it leads us. I was feeling seasick from the start.
yo elvis,did you get this know it all- Afrikan attitude after selling stolen Afrikan art and artifacts,in your bourgeois shop on front street?
..have my degree which may as well be toilet paper here so yes in bermuda im uneducated, n workin in blue colar sector…..then u need to get your head up Brown’s butt,or de colonel’s up yours
And that pretty much sums up who you are as a person, doesn’t it?
Trying to seem smart, but ultimately an ignorant, angry, ridiculous little man with little or no knowledge about anything, but a whole load of opinions, based on such fragile material that ANY threat to them causes you to lash out like a child.
Now, when you grow up a little, maybe someone might listen to you. Until then? Yep.. you’re just… well, you’re nobody, aren’t you.
Nice dig on Lt. Col. Burch’s alleged homosexuality… classy and a real show of intelligence.
The Obama model doesnt work in Bermuda because blacks are the majority they vote personality not on issues. If Dr. Clown or Dale Bulter ran for the UBP they would retain their seat.
Thats why negative politics and bribes are the only way for FREE BABYFORMULA FOR SINGLE MOTHERS! THE PLP HATES CHILDREN! etc.
That comes from a hood nigga. OUT Peace.
You’re getting a bit lost Pig. Brown would be impossible in UBP. He is, more than most, the creation of a political party, and that party is the PLP. He gives the appearance of independence but his thinking tends toward conventional PLP solutions. Butler, being of independent mind, is his own political creation. And so, from time to time, he has to be corrected – as in cases in which he assesses the circumstances on the basis of fact, rather than wisdom and interest of the party, which is holy and far more important than the governed voters. If Brown had been white, of course, yes, he would fit right into the UBP. The UBP has a weak sort of philosophy which it forces its membership to observe, thus crippling their ability to operate effectively. Just like the PLP. But Brown as a white man is something so far from reality in other respects that I wonder if the proposition is useful.
Scrap that last post. Its all nonsense. Sorry.
I thought they only voted race? Now it’s “personalities”?
Educated Pigs,
So do you profess to speak for all us black folk? If your theory is correct, how do you expalain the large number of blacks who support and vote for the UBP? I get the sense that you are a black Bermudian, so are you saying that you voted personality and that issues and party rhetoric has no bearing on how you vote? If that is the case you are no different from a pig being led to slaughter because that means you will follow whoever attempts to lead you. Maybe, like I tell me son, think about what you want to say before you speak or before you write. Because without doing so you are likely to spew a loud of complete and utter nonsense.
Well there goes your theory out the window Guilden.
So much for ole doc brown.
Dale Butler and Dr. Brown are both capitalist elite pigs. Every black MP is. The grand exalted doctor lawyer that empowers himself and oppresses the people. The people even the black worker still votes for them even though both MPs hate the poor.
Both of these candidates replaced elite UBP candidates who however shared the wealth with the people the same time empowering themselves. Sir John calls this management skills.
There is a small rebellion but time will tell. The black elite hide behind politicans ready to stab them in the back. Honestly, 22% says it all. My advise is to leave Bermuda after he leaves office. In the Regiment they say aim for the chest not the head or ankle. I dont see nobody in the chest of the PLP MPs who cares about the poor. The people must cry first let them suffer until then.
My advise is to leave Bermuda after he leaves office.
After? If he’s so awful, then surely the time to leave would be BEFORE he leaves office, no?
Surely the person that follows can’t be as bad as you profess him to be, could they?
So every black MP is a Capitalist pig? Are you proposing that blacks should than stay out of politics and leave politics to white persons? If this happened would you not than complain that there are no blacks in political power?
Based on your comments it apears that blacks world wide whoudl stay out of politics and leave that to white. Am I correct in that intepretation? If I am not please help me to make sense of what it is you are trying to say because quite frankly I am more than a little confused.
Not sure what Piggy is getting into. Sounds like a lot of righteous rage much of which I find understandable. Carrying on from what Guilden said though, I almost want to say “Welcome to the world of politics.” The traits of black politicians he outlines are sadly common among all. Perhaps this is part of the Obama enthusiasm. Perhaps black people in politics are supposed to be better behaved, and Obama seems to be very scrupulous. To many people he may represent an idealized view of the historically disposessed coming to the temple of power to throw out the money changers. Well, (music) t’aint necessarily so. Black people are welcome to try and do it better than we white people. And in so many areas the bar is set very low. Its natural for responsible black people to think “surely we can do better than this.” Maybe they can. I hope so.
casual observer….. political history has shown that the 40thieves made many a insider deal to get kickbacks via back door contracts….aka government officials accepting bribes… there have been no controls put in place to stop this form of corruption in the 10yrs of this new administration…so its logical to conclude it still continues….It would appear for any regular person to get ahead in government negotiations they would have to “pay to play” a poor person like me aint got enuff money though… so i wouldnt know 😦
Bill….lmao……dats pretty good….lol….I dont swing that way if u think tha col does…. n im not rich enough or in the rite social class to get that close 2 the docs butt …lmao
Guilden…..
I would say until this system is changed and the average people have true power over government EVERY SINGLE PM AND SENATOR BLACK OR WHITE is corrupt and a capitalist extreemist granddaddy HOG……until regular people (black or white) can be in political power my opinion will not change, because people of the elietist class never ever have had any concerns about the poor, nor have they made significant strides to fix the overall conditions that create a poor class, history prooves this repeatetly sadly. especially here in da richest per capital country in tha world where 10% of the population are gettin tha money.
So what’s the solution? I hear a lot of complaining, but where are the suggestions?
SoO,
The only thing I would suggest that you look in the mirror before you accuse this Government of being corrupt. Because surely you do not think you are above reproach. Does 15% of the contract value sound familiar to you?
SoO,
What do you mean by regular people?
Are Patrice Minors, Walter Roban, Ashfield Devent not regular people? How about Shawn Crockwell, Kim Swan, Charlie Swan?
What is your definition of regular people? No one is excluded from running as a candidate, a party may not select you but you can run as an independent or get together with a group and form your own party.
Guilden, you never answered re your post #52 and my comments. Any reason?
Sob is dead right! these dummies would follow Voodoo dolls ..
the bourgoise blacks have betrayed EF Gordons legacy and are drivin us off the cliff
Beyonce is comming again, does that count? The next year will show what it’s all about and the followers will still be spinning their paid for view.
Cahow,
I did not respond because I guess I miss the point you are trying to make. Dr. Brown was chosen as leader by his party, the electorate simply chose the PLP as the better option over the UBP and the PLP is more than its chosen leader.
Please explain the point you were trying to raise because clearly I don’t get it.
Don’t worry, you get it just won’t elaborate. I will get back tomorrow. Right now looking for nesting place.
Don’t worry, Guilden. I didn’t understand it either.
Did’nt understand what Elvis? Which part, which comment are you refering too?
#53. It made no sense to me.
Thats your problem. You only agree with those that agree with you yet say nothing about what I refered too. But birds do flock don’t they?
What’s with the attack? I didn’t understand what you said.
I don’t understand why you have to freak out like this, Rummy. You’re not making any sense at all.
Leave it to sucks. I’m not posting there any more. You won. Why do you have to go on attack everywhere you go?
I was not attacking you at all, merely commenting. But I have noticed that when people say things you always take it as an attack. That is one of your failings and should not be labled too me.
I am not the Rummy. Your dealings with them has nothing to do with me.
As for making sense, you appear to want confrontation. You will get none from me with reagrds to your similarities.
Read what Guilden wrote about ‘following’, thats all I ask.
Cahow,
Based on Dr. Brown’s current approval rating there aren’t too many who appear to be “followers” of him. Therefore, my theory still stands, if someone votes based purely on personality than they are fools in my opinion. I trust I have now addressed your point.
No, Rummy, that WAS an attack. Your comments on me “only agreeing with those that agree with me” is not only nonsensical drivel, with the even more nonsensical “yet say nothing about what I refered too” followup, after I plainly said that I didn’t understand what you were talking about, then the even more ridiculous denial of your identity and yet ANOTHER personal attack on my “failings” just shows that you’re pulling the same thing you always do, making some ridiculous statement, then taunting and baiting until you get confrontation, just so you can fall back into your victim role of “Why are you picking on me?”
You constantly do this, stating your misguided and pointed opinion of me, based on no facts, no sort of reality whatsoever.
I’m sick of it. I left Bermuda Sucks because of this nonsense. You should be happy that you won that battle. This is a goal that you plainly stated you wanted. You won. Get over it. Don’t bring it here. You have the run of that site now. It’s all yours.
Please stop this vendetta. I don’t want your nonsense and bizarre behaviour ruining yet another place for people to have a discussion.
So, anyway…
I’m still wary of Obama here, but I do have to admit that he’s done quite a bit of good work over the last week. Has anyone read over his economic stimulus plan yet?
Thanks Guilden. Makes sense to me now. The clarification sets me straight.
Jonnystar I think that Obama has so far continued to say the ‘right things’ in his early days as president. He’s kept the lines open with the Republicans and it looks like they’re going to get some things done on an economic front.
With regards to foreign policy, healthcare, immigration and the like, I suppose it’s still wait-and-see. Things do seem to have fallen into place fairly nicely (the Blagovewhatchit thing still outstanding) for him, particularly the Israeli cease-fire, with which I agree that the timing was well-orchestrated.
I very much like what he’s done so far, my only real complaint, on a personal level, is that he’s (and perhaps rightly so) continuing the same tack as Bush did with regards to Zimbabwe, pushing for SADC and the AU to handle it. This might be the right way to go, but, for me, I just want the US to do SOMETHING. 2,800 people dead from a disease that can be stopped by clean drinking water and basic health care? It’s gone beyond the point of “Wait and see”.
Tryangle, I agree about the Cease-fire. It was amazing to me that they seemingly wanted it to end BEFORE the inauguration… and given my feelings on GWB, a wonderful cosmic FU!
As someone who readily admits to his man-crush on Obama, I too am in the “hopefully optimistic” category. I don’t think he’s the messiah, but I really REALLY hope that he can get stuff done and make it better for all of us.
Oh, and the tax-cut part of the bailout. I’m disappointed that it’s so big and the “Infrastructure” portion is so small.
How does it effect you Elvis? Please elaborate?
man-crush on Obama, that explains why your always trying to start fights and hurling feces like a monkey …
How does what affect me, Rummy?
Hey, “Bill”, who is it that’s trying to start a fight and who’s actually talking about the topic?
S’what I though. Your opinion of me is less than worthless. Now run along little boy and let the grownups talk.
What you said in post #79. How does it affect you? Answer the question, please.
Don’t side step, you made a statement. Please respond.
In 79, I spoke about how I was disappointed that “Infrastructure” wasn’t as well funded in the bailout as “Tax Cuts”.
It doesn’t affect me directly, I just think that taxcuts are a bandaid and funding infrastructure would create jobs that are sorely needed and would be a better use of the funds and, thus, would be more of a help to get America out of the deep rut they’re in, which does, in fact, affect me.
I wasn’t side stepping, I was asking for clarification, as I expressed two opinions, one on Zimbabwe, the other on the bailout.
He’s going to do both like a good Keynsian: cut taxes, increase spending in a recession. Unfortunately, his predecessor, a famous pain in the ***, turned Keynes on his head by spending and cutting taxes when there was no recession. So ‘Bama has no gas in the tank to start, thanks to the clown prince of mayhem. The ideologues on the left and right ( why do they always seem to go together ? ) will criticize Obama no matter what he does because all his options are terrible. Whatever he does, someone will suffer. There is no way out of that. He’s popular now but soon the screaming will start. When it does remember the bad old days under the mad king and thank your luck you got someone who can think straight.
I keep a picture of the shoe heading for Bush’s head above my desk. It consoles me in these times. That arab fella is a hero of mine.
“clown prince of mayhem”
That cracked me up!
And yes, I agree. He’s got nothing in the tank, as opposed to said clown prince, who had a major surplus when he started.
And Muntadhar al-Zaidi is just made of awesome!
elvis: And Muntadhar al-Zaidi is just made of awesome!
He some how distilled the feelings of millions into one gesture. “A goodbye kiss from the people of Iraq, you dog.” Perfect. I’m keeping track of him. At the moment as far as I can tell he’s in prison but his guards threw him a birthday party. He hasn’t got a court date yet. He did what a congress of democrats couldn’t do: show scorching disrespect when it was warranted.
Civil, very well put! With one toss, he became a hero of an insane amount of people, all over the world! One shoe! That’s incredible.
And what pleases me more is that it WAS so awesome that even rightwingers like FOXNews etc. were as in awe as we were!
I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when Bill O’Reilly saw that for the first time! “Ok, I know I’m supposed to be all full of love and defense for George Dubya, but that was HILARIOUS!”
Thanks Johnathan for the oportunity to here on your site.
Take care and study hard. I don’t agree with all your beliefs but thats what makes the world go round.
Cahow.
Again, thanks.
I feel it is necessary to note that I have taken the rare action of deleting a few comments from this thread that in my opinion were personal attacks or genuine attempts to derail discussion for personal reasons of their authors. I generally do not do this, as I do not want people to think that they are being censored. However personal attacks are not okay. Some have slipped by in the past, largely as I am not at a computer 24/7 and by the time I am the conversation has progressed to the point that it is no longer practical to do so. I hope I will not have to do this again.