Initial Thoughts on the Ex-Pat Card

I just came across this breaking news article in the RG. I don’t have much time to research and develop a full response to this issue, but I thought I might as well give my gut reaction here, and then read up more about the scheme in particular and write mroe later. Right now in the UK there is an attempt to institute ID cards and I’ll write more on that later. They want to start with international students at UK universities for the pilot (we can’t vote so who cares), and thats causing alot of anger amongst us, general plans being to boycott them and join the protest movements against them.

I am extremely wary of this initiative. As many elsewhere are bound to point out, this is easily going to be seen as a ratcheting up of hostilities towards ex-pats. It may also be used to discriminate against ex-pats (although in truth its easy enough to tell an ex-pat from a Bdian most of the time by way of accent). My main concern is that it may also be a prelude to a roll-out to all residents, foriegner or Bermudian regardless.

There are alot of issues with this, from identity theft to increased bureaucratisation and centralisation of the nation-state. As i’ve been a bit pre-occupied with my studies, I’ve been putting off getting to involved in the ID card debate here, but now, well, I certainly have access to alot of the literature on the issue. My gut reaction is that they are bad, but I’m going to have to beef up my response based on the pros and cons.

As it is, I am not in favour of the initiative, but I look forward to reading more about the scheme in particular and ID cards in general. I’ll write another post when I have had the opportunity to digest the issues more.

And I’m sure others will point out that I may be biased in that I am the son of two expatriates. I’ld rather call that as having some insight though.

As I was typing the full report was published on the RG site here.

Advertisements

223 thoughts on “Initial Thoughts on the Ex-Pat Card

  1. To paraphrase how Uncle Elvis put it elsewhere, if one of the very first things that you do to justify a Government policy is to raise an analogy to Nazi Germany, you might want to rethink that policy.

  2. Good point.

    I want to stress though that I think this initiative is more directed to West Indian (coughjamaicanscough) expatriates. There is alot of discrimination against this group, although I find it to be largely invisible in the world of white Bermuda and white expatriates that are more prominent at least within the blogosphere. This has the potential to heighten the tensions within the community.

  3. As someone who has been repeatedly hassled at both immigration and customs because I am a white Bermudian who happens to sound distinctly English, I can’t wait for the first time when someone asks me to produce my ex pat card. Some colourful language will be used, I think……

  4. Thats kind of funny to some degree. I suggest that you be prepared to be arrested for offensive language or something like that. You puport to be be a Lawyer so I imagine you would act accordingly even though you want to be seen as tough.

  5. Thin end of the wedge, the Cayman’s have just passed a law to fingerprint all Work permit holders and dependents to stop deported expats from returning under another name (no evidence that this has ever happened)and then passed law to include these fingerprints with all convicted felons in the police database.

    It starts with ID cards and ends with arm bands.

  6. Sorry Loki, wrong case file. I’m not the Rummy, get over it. Deal with your comments and don’t try to evade and dump them on someone else.

    As for the subject? Curious minds want to know what the catual purpose of this is. Mabe the RG and others can get something out of the Cabinet and Ministers concerned with regard to this.

    It’s all quite simple yet Government make it out to be so complicated and for the country’s good. Hogwash.

    e.g. Tourist walking past construction site and asks for directions to his/her hotel. Covered in sand from the beach and concrete from the site, they are asked for i.d.

    Bermuda is the only other world.

  7. Well, I’m just about to tuck into my fish supper (it is Friday afterall), but I just thought I’ld add a bit more of my thoughts.

    Currently ex-pats receive a paper work-permit. These of course are liable to wear and tear. There is no reason why these work-permits cannot be made in the form of a laminated card – or a proper card, like our driver’s licenses. These would be much more durable than the existing paper format, and I reckon much more practical for ex-pats. If that is all that the ‘ID cards for ex-pats’ amounts to, then that is nothing to be worried about.

    The way it is presented though, it comes across as quite autocratic.

    I hope that this is all that the proposal is, something useful and practical, but presented badly.

  8. Exactly.

    My problem with the presentation of this, though, is: Why not just say THAT, rather than the “I know you’ll say this is Gestapo-like, but…” thing?

    I have a feeling that the method of presentation in general is what people have a problem with, when it comes to the PLP.

    Why not just go, “Hey, we got this idea and we’re thinking of putting it in place…” instead of the usual heavy-handed “Here’s what we’re gonna do and if you disagree you’re a racist and, worse, if you’re in the PLP and disagree, you shouldn’t be in the PLP” method?

  9. in truth its easy enough to tell an ex-pat from a Bdian most of the time by way of accent

    As an observation, that’s not true. Many Bermudians have spent significant parts of their life abroad (school etc.) and have developed distinctly non-Bermudian accents. And that doesn’t count status Bermudians who were born and grew up elsewhere.

    But more importantly, if the cards are simply intended to be a more convenient form of the existing work permit (i.e., something that’s easier to produce when travelling) that’s fine. But it’s pretty hard to reach that conclusion from Burch’s remarks:

    This card will greatly assist the Compliance Department when they are out in the field investigating complaints that have been received of persons working without a work permit or persons working outside their job category.

    During investigations, when approached by members of the Compliance section, guest workers can readily produce their ID card and prove that they are working within the parameters of their work permit.

    This ID card will feature a photo of the individual, their name, employer, job category and ID number.

    That hardly sounds like something that’s designed to simplify travel arrangements.

  10. in truth its easy enough to tell an ex-pat from a Bdian most of the time by way of accent

    As an observation, that’s not true. Many Bermudians have spent significant parts of their life abroad (school etc.) and have developed distinctly non-Bermudian accents. And that doesn’t count status Bermudians who were born and grew up elsewhere.

    But more importantly, if the cards are simply intended to be a more convenient form of the existing work permit (i.e., something that’s easier to produce when travelling) that’s fine. But it’s pretty hard to reach that conclusion from Burch’s remarks:

    This card will greatly assist the Compliance Department when they are out in the field investigating complaints that have been received of persons working without a work permit or persons working outside their job category.

    During investigations, when approached by members of the Compliance section, guest workers can readily produce their ID card and prove that they are working within the parameters of their work permit.

    This ID card will feature a photo of the individual, their name, employer, job category and ID number.

    That hardly sounds like something that’s designed to simplify travel arrangements.

  11. Really, the question then is whether the initiative is one of a sinister nature or a ‘trainwreck in slowmotion’ incident of Senator Burch.

    Now, I disagree with Senator Burch on quite a few things – I see him as very much on the conservative right-wing of the Party for various reasons – although I do find his sense of humour quite funny. But all that notwithstanding, you’ve got to admit he does have a bit of a track-record of, um, public relations gaffe.

    I would be inclined to think that this is much more of the latter than any sinister plot by the Government.

  12. Absolutely true Johnny. As a Kernal in the Regiment he had limitaions. He has brought these into public life and is using it as a backdrop for the past.

    Sorta like Dr. Brown fliping burgers once the house tumbles. It’s just a carryover from having authority yet no command.

    Now he is the Kernal, and soon to be a Major player.

  13. “I’m not the Rummy, get over it. Deal with your comments and don’t try to evade and dump them on someone else.”

    Point taken, Rummy….I mean, ‘Cahow’. Oh, bugger it, Rummy, I can’t even keep up the pretence, I’m afraid. Anyway, the point’s taken. The point doesn’t make any sense, but it’s taken, nonetheless.

    —————————————————————————————————

    Jonathan,

    Whilst I doubt that the intent is sinister in nature, the civil liberties implications are of concern (hence, Burt’s reference to the Gestapo), and the potential for abuse and misuse of information is clear, I would suggest.

  14. Burch bags..”conservative right-wing of the Party”..huhhh?

    thats a good one, the dominatrix with double earings is conservative right-wing of the Poop and cirumstance Party..yeah right

  15. In some respects, yes he certainly is in the social conservative wing on a number of issues. Namely his stance on parents being held criminally responsible for the actions of their children and the need to return to strong family traditional values and the Church.

    His personal life, or whatever you and others allude to, is no concern of mine. The ideology he seems to advocate in his public statements though is.

  16. “In some respects, yes he certainly is in the social conservative wing on a number of issues.”

    Except that one could argue (indeed, I would argue) that the predominant stance of the PLP Government is one of social conservatism, and that Burt does not represent a departure from the norm in this respect. One only has to look at how the Party has pandered to the interests of Bermuda’s churches to see evidence of this.

  17. That would only indicate that the social conservative wing is in a dominant position within the Party at the moment. I would actually say that it is dominant in alliance with another faction, the Black Bourgoisie intent on gentrification.

    There are quite a bit of social progressives, even quite radical ones at that, within the Party.

  18. “That would only indicate that the social conservative wing is in a dominant position within the Party at the moment.”

    This is precisely my point, and why I said “the predominant stance of the PLP Government”, as opposed to the Party as a whole.

  19. My understanding is that these cards will be used on in specific instances.

    1. at the airport instead of having to show work permit and landing permit etc the card will be show which will show expiry date etc.

    2. if there is an investigation into the legality of a worker then they will be asked to show them.

    i dont believe people will randomly be asked to show these cards as they walk down the street etc. i think anyone who thinks this is being a bit far fetched. I think they will only be asked to reference this card in certain circumstances.

    i expect them to be more durable than work permits and more easily referencible. Put them in your wallet with your drivers licence and carry on business as usual.

  20. Hi Ken, I am very much inclined to believe that you are correct in your estimation there. I really think that in this instance the presentation was rather bad and has opened the Party up to attacks – I understand the UBP in the form of Mr. Richards, has now taken up the attack on this issue. It should have been presented as simply an improvement of the existing paper work permits, and that would not have caused anywhere near the amount of problems that the actual presentation has led to.

    Not sure what the fallout will be, but I think Senator Burch may soon be forced to backpedal a little; I think he spoke a bit out of line and skewed the reception of what should be a welcomed modernisation of the work permits. Its unfortunate, but it may come to be neccessary for the sake of clearing the air.

  21. My understanding is that these cards will be used on in specific instances.

    1. at the airport instead of having to show work permit and landing permit etc the card will be show which will show expiry date etc.

    Which is exactly what the existing paper work permit shows.

    Having said that, this is more convenient. If I needed a work permit I’d happily stick this piece of plastic in with my passport. If nothing else, it’s more durable than a letter of some sort. But I really have an issue with anything that suggests I have to take it to work every day.

    2. if there is an investigation into the legality of a worker then they will be asked to show them.

    So if somebody simply turns up and says gimme the individual in question has to produce this particular chunk of ID. What happens if the person being quizzed is Bermudian? Or an SoB, or a PRC, or whatever? They won’t have this magical card.

    It’s not the expats that really have to be worried. It’s the Bermudians that don’t look like “real” Bermudians.

  22. “It’s not the expats that really have to be worried. It’s the Bermudians that don’t look like “real” Bermudians.”

    That’s my concern, also. I mean, how many times have we seen an article in the daily newspaper, or on the evening news wherein a group of workers complained about ex pats working on a major construction site illegally, ‘taking jobs away from hard-working Bermudians’ only to find out the very next day that the ‘ex pats’ complained of were actually white Bermudians? This very scenario seems to occur whenever there’s a major building project underway in Bermuda.

  23. I am trying to figure out what the fuss is about. I can understand the way it was presented drew ooohs and ahhhs from people but as a white Bermudian, if someone asked me for a card or piece of paper I would tell them too seek higher help.

    I would be arrested because I left my wallet home? There are only few things that must be carried and one is a drivers licence whe operating a vehicle of any description. Or, mabe a drivers licence when purchasing alcahol etc.

    This is nothing more than someone showing bravado. Now if it is to replace other paperworks, then it is not sufficient. Losse your card or have it stolen along with your wallet.

    When’s the new dorms for the misinformed opening?

  24. “This card will greatly assist the Compliance Department when they are out in the field investigating complaints that have been received of persons working without a work permit or persons working outside their job category”. (Source: RG)

    In the absence of other information, it begs the question what information the card will hold that the existing permit does not.

    What is it about the replacement card that will assist the Compliance Dept, that they can’t already get from a current paper Permit?

    As usual, the absence of information lends itself to concerns – that may not be warranted.

  25. In the absence of other information, it begs the question what information the card will hold that the existing permit does not.

    It can’t hold additional information. The only difference is that work permit holders can be required to produce it on the spot whenever challenged.

    As an observation, this is not a new idea. Way back when (twenty years ago?) this was suggested by a PLP backbencher (Grace Bell??). Speaking from memory she was concerned that her cleaning business was finding it tough to compete and was adamant that it had to be because her competitors were using illegal labour (obviously it couldn’t have had anything to do with service, pricing, or quality of work product) and she felt that she should have the right to go onto a job site and insist that her competitors employees produce their work permits.

    Nothing came of that particular outburst but it did lead to the current restriction on the length of time that tourists can stay (3 weeks vs the former 6 months).

  26. As usual, the absence of information lends itself to concerns

    Exactly.

    Imagine if they had come out and said, “In an effort to make things easier all round, we’re doing these cards.” You wouldn’t be getting this kind of reaction…

    It’s like they’re looking for controversy. Like they WANT to do things that will make people bitch and complain.

  27. Other than the fact that Bermudians might kickup a fuss if challenged (in error of course), this is probably a done deal. It could end up as a paper tiger I suppose – we shall see.

    Much like the renaming of the school at St David’s; THEY want it – THEY get it.

    Consultation my ass!

  28. I don’t believe this is such a bad idea. I mean these cards are more durable and compact in comparison to the paper work permits which are currently issued. I am assuming of course that card replaces the need for the paper permits. They have issued similar initiatives in various other countries.

    Other than that why would it cost $3mn for these cards? If there are 10,000 foreign workers here, why would it cost $300 per person per card? What type of technology do these cards contain? What is the cost of the current work permits that are used today?

  29. The strange thing is, if the Govt had just gone ahead and done it, there would more than likely have been no fuss.

    Why cobble together some lame excuses to justify the change?

  30. “In the absence of other information, it begs the question what information the card will hold that the existing permit does not.

    It can’t hold additional information. The only difference is that work permit holders can be required to produce it on the spot whenever challenged.”

    Yeah they can. Little gps trackers so they’ll always know where the expats are!

  31. Reading through Senator Burch’s press release in the Sun (http://www.bermudasun.bm/main.asp?FromHome=1&TypeID=1&ArticleID=39584&SectionID=117&SubSectionID=640) it does seem that the ID cards are simply a more convenient replacement of the existing work permit papers. This is a good thing, and I don’t think many people would oppose it when presented as that. Which just compounds the problem as to why it was presented as it was initially. If the Senator had been straight up and just said we are replacing the existing papers with a durable card format, then there wouldn’t have been any fuss. None. I am surprised at the delivery quite frankly, as in my expereince most Ministers have their press releases typed up for them in advance, and this type of PR disaster would have been vetted in advance. My feeling is that the Senator went ‘rogue’ a la Palin for whatever reason.

    Anyway, on the one hand he has attempted to clarify the issue with this press release, confirming that the cards are merely a replacement and nothing more. But on the other hand he seems to have walked into another problem with his attack on Senator Richards. Attacking Senator Richards for refferring to the initiative as ‘Nazi-like’ is the acme of idiocy when Senator Burch himself made reference to the Nazi’s in his first press conference.

    As to the main thrust of his attack on Senator Richards, yeah, I understand where Senator burch is coming from. Senator Richards is coming across as totally hypocritical in his public scorn of the initative and private support for the same initiative when he stands to profit from it. But the entire approach comes across as confusing and like an angry child throwing a tantrum. I agree that Senator Burch should point out Senator Richards hypocrisy, all I’m saying is that a little more thought should have gone into framing the argument.

    As to Senator Richards, he should have announced his conflict of interest at the get go. his failure to do so portrays him as a true opportunist, in the political sense trying to capitalise on something for political gain, while privately seeking to profit from it. Though I@ve never understood the logic behind the phrase, this is a clear case of someone trying to have his cake and eat it to (seriously, we all know what this means, but does it make any sense? Why shouldn’t you eat your cake?). If this Senator had the integrity to stand by his principles then he should have argued against the initiative when it came to his company and refused to have any part in it. Now he jsut looks like a fool. He may have presented some valid arguments against the initiative in his public attacks, but this jsut makes him look even more foolish for accepting the business deal in the first place.

    Now, I can’t see Senator Richards resigning or being forced to resign for this, I think thats just political posturing by Senator Burch, but if he wants to regain any sense of dignity then I think he should either attempt to disavow the business deal in question, or leave the company altogether.

    The only other thing I have to say on this issue for now is, like others, I’m kind of shocked at the amount of money being pumped into this scheme. I cannot fathom how this scheme is as expensive as is alluded to in the press release. There has to be more to this scheme than what has been made public to date for it to be so expensive. I mean, with a depression going on, and from my experience within the Government workforce that was chronically underpaid and undersupplied (although the big ups always seemed to enjoy nice lunches…) and having to fight for just wages, this just comes across as a little bit of a slap in the face. Where are the priorities? Perhaps these wasteful expenditures can be explained in an understanable way, but failure to do so to date, coupled with intransigence to labour demands and percieved luxuries for big ups, and general lack of information only feeds into a perception of misplaced priorities of th elike Senator burch recently chastised the ‘Ipod’ generation for.

  32. Sorry Jonny, I have to disagree with you on this one. MP Richards is opposing something he thinks is wrong which could stand to make him lose money. To me, that’s integrity not the other way around. I’m not a fan of him but honestly, Senator Burch’s argument is silly and doesn’t stand up to any examination. Let’s see, you stand to lose money by speaking out… aha, you’re the bad guy? Huh?

    As for dxeclaring his interests, Bob Richards has. It’s public knowledge which companies he is a director on and all. Remeber, all MPs were SUPPOSED to do that?

  33. Alsys, gimme a friggin break times two.

    I dont know if your message was in jest or not, but those cards are not gonna have any GPS mechanism in it.

    With regards to your second comments, MP Richards is decrying something but not acknowledging that he is standing to make millions off. But moreso than decrying it, he is comparing it to Nazism and a host of other comparables which are excessive and absolutely ridiculous. It is part of the UBP philosophy of protect the ex-pat over the Bermudian, and paint a portrait of the PLP as xenophobic and radical. The UBP talk of protecting international business, yet they conjur up these ridiculous comparisons in an effort to scare bermudians into opposing the PLP stances on certain issues.
    He should have said that he doesnt agree with the principle of the cards, if that is his view. But all this nazi crap is ridiculous and an insult to the intelligence of bermudians. However this should come as no surprise because anyone who has met the man or spoke to him or even seen him, knows that he believes that no one knows anything more than he. I mean come on he lost a 240 majority in a safe seat.

  34. I am assuming to try and comfort the IB leaders down here that it wasn’t a ploy to keep track of their workers in a “Gestapo” type fashion.

    But more importantly are the once again racial stereotyping and divisive comments that our ever inclusive (sarcasm) leader Dr. Brown spewed last week in the house. White Bermudians wouldn’t vote for Obama. A disgusting comment from a disgusting man.

    If I was eligible Obama would have had my vote. McCain looked liek he was going to have a heart attack everytime he spoke and Palin as President?

    The PLP doesn’t get it. The type of language they have used towards white Bdians will never achieve votes from the white public, especially from people of my generation taht wasn’t around in the days of teh civil rights moments. They think by guilt tripping (i.e. plantation, slave masters, confused negores, chain us up, flogging etc) the white population that they will vote for them. Well they are wrong. They have made it quite clear that they are only worried about one segment of the population.

    The scariest thing about it all is the delusion that Dr. Brown has in his mind that he is comparable to President-elect Obama. The most divisive man in Bdian politics today trying to align himself with an individual that has struck a chord with individuals from all races, classes and backgrounds in the much more racist US. The PLP has not done this and from their track record has no intention of doing so. You are not Obama and this current PLP administration are becoming more and more right wing everyday that they are beginning to resemble teh polices of McCain and Bush.

    Brown and Obama = apples and oranges.

  35. “It is part of the UBP philosophy of protect the ex-pat over the Bermudian”

    Ken,

    Can you provide examples to justify your claim? What policies on the UBP platform has gave you this feeling? Serious question.

  36. Ken.

    1. Yes, indeed that was in jest. If you took it otherwise, your issue not mine.

    2. Senator Burch likened it to the nazis himself. When he announced the plan. BEFORE MP Richards. Blame him if you are upset at the comparison. And Richards only stands to make money if this is a done deal, if it isn’t then his protestation stands to make him lose money… if he was so unethical then he wouldn’t have said anything rather than shoot himself in the foot (so to say).

    Look, I’m no fan of either the MP Richards or the UBP but to imply that they are using certain language to scare the public when the PLP used it first in the initial announcement is disingenous.

  37. 9ps i am not talking about their platform.
    I am talking about every stance they take – from giving longterm residents voting rights, from wanting day care benefits to extend to foreign families, and to now accusing the govt of Nazi tactics…it is always something to make foreign workers feel the current govt is against them.

  38. He used the phrase “gestapo” in his press conference. Acknowledging that this is aomething that brings up connotations of nazi Germany and then wondering why someone elaborates on that is, as I said, disingenous. Senator Burch is a smart man, he didn’t have to bring up the imagery himself but he did.

  39. Ken,

    Those issues were onthe UBP platform. The daycare initiative should be extended to all if these families are paying into the tax system to fund such a program. They have tehoption to send their kids to public schools based on this fact. So what is the difference with daycare?

    As I said before I don’t see a major problem with the issuing of these cards. It happens all over the world and BDA is too small to have illegal immigrants employed here. But I do believe Mr. Burch should have announced it in a different fashion. “Gestapo tactics” was definitely not the correct phrase to use in the initial press conference announcing the idea being put forward. Just having to hear that from the immigration minister will inevitably instill fear and apprehension among the foreign workers of this country.

  40. Ken – Richards is “not acknowledging that he is standing to make millions”?

    What about this in the daily?

    “The most BITS can gross from the four-year contract, which involves a US partner, is $300,000 before charges for salaries, taxes, pensions and overhead,” – Bob Richards

    So is this a blatant lie, or are you and the Colonel exaggerating for effect?

  41. From Wiki:

    “The gestapo (contraction of geheime Staatspolizei: “Secret State Police”) was the official secret police of Nazi Germany.

    If using that word isn’t likening something to Nazism, what is, Ken?

    Also, can you elaborate on the problem with Mr. Richards opposing something that he disagrees with, even though it could potentially make him money. How is that unethical?
    How does that justify a call for his resignation.

    While we’re conversating, can you please comment on the racist statements our Premier made, regarding how a group of people would vote, based solely on the colour of their skin?

    Where is the call for HIS resignation?

  42. I didnt know anything about the Premier’s comments until i saw today’s paper.

    I dont wholeheartedly agree. I do believe some white Bermudians would have voted for Obama…but its much easier to say in theory that in practice.

    The truth is, is that the white Bermudian vote is guaranteed to the UBP – regardless of who the candidate is. If any vote in Bermuda is a swing vote, it is historically from the black community.

    So statistically speaking a Bermudian politician could be the exact duplicate of Obama and white Bermuda would NOT vote for him.

  43. Which in itself bring the image to mind! Do you understand the phrase connotations?!?

    Connotation is a subjective cultural and/or emotional coloration in addition to the explicit or denotative meaning of any specific word or phrase in a language, i.e. emotional association with a word.

    Why mention it at all if he didn’t want the leap to be made. Perhaps the leap would have been made and then yes, he would be correct to say that UBP was being divisive. But you can’t possibly bring up a subject yourself and then get mad at someone else for continuing on in the same train of thought. Maybe you need the definition for disingenuous too, Ken?

  44. Whether it brought it to mind or not is not my point. My point is that he did not LIKEN it to gestapo tactics. he differentiated it from.

    Dont be patronizing Alsys…i dont need any definitions from you…

    you on the other hand…

  45. So statistically speaking a Bermudian politician could be the exact duplicate of Obama and white Bermuda would NOT vote for him.

    Um… how do you figure this? Are you saying that, in order to be an “exact duplicate of Obama”, he’d have to run for the PLP?

    Seriously?

    Is that what you’re saying?

    You’ve moved into semantics games on the Nazism thing, so I’m gonna bow out of that one. You’re being disingenuous.

  46. Elvis,

    my point was yes, if someone like Obama ran for the PLP, he still would not get the white bermuda vote because they refuse to vote PLP. So more than likely, the Premier’s comments were accurate. They can express support for him because they would never need to vote for him or even have the opportunity.

  47. But that’s not what he said. You’re obfuscating the issue.

    What he said was that, if we were able to vote in the US election, we wouldn’t have voted for him.

    That’s disgusting.

    And now YOU’RE doing it! How DARE you, sir, intimate that? How dare you?

  48. Someone posted something similar to what you said over on Sucks…

    this is how I responded…

    Seriously?

    If President-Elect Obama had ran THAT campaign for the PLP, you honestly believe that white folks wouldn’t vote for him?

    THAT campaign? The one he ran for the past 2 years? The one that looks nothing like anything we’ve ever seen before?

    If THAT campaign had been run for the PLP, white folks wouldn’t vote for them?

    If you truly do believe this, then you haven’t been paying attention to what the critics have been saying about the PLP, the reasons why people criticize it.

  49. Yes, I am Ken. If being a lost cause menas that I believe in right and wrong and haven’t got my head up my arse like some, sure..

  50. Ken,

    If Obama was a PLP candidate do you think he would alienate the white vote (especially the young white vote) by using the divisive racial rhetoric that the PLP was and is still ready to use at any opportunity?

    My first vote was in the 2003 election. My family isn’t interested in politics as they believe that they are all crooks anyways and don’t vote. So when I started to become politically inclined (not knowing any of the UBP or PLP’s past as I wasn’t interested as a young boy)before the 2003 election I was automaticallyh turned off by the racial rhetoric and incinuations made by the PLP towrads whites. They labelled a whole set of people and went out in the public and spread this divisive and hateful message.

    As a first time voter this being the first exposure to the PLP are comments that all whites are basically racist (as you just claimed above), what makes you think that I would run and vote for a party that doesn’t respect me and essentially doesn’t believe I am a true Bermudian?

    So that historical context of all whites voting for the UBP is null and void for the younger generation such as myself that has only recently become involved in the BDA political scene. And believe it or not my family never once told me I must vote for the UBP and actually i cannot recall amoment in my upbringing where politics was and is discussed at my home.

    But hey, if it makes you sleep better at night making such outrageous and unfounded accusations, so be it. But you must recognize that they do nothing for BDA and ALL OF ITS PEOPLES.

  51. Lord! Good thing I sat back and watched the rocks being thrown here.

    Ken, you answer your own comments but don’t realise it because that’s the way you want it to unfold.

    These are mere tactics used by the PLP. As long as they and the likes of you keep putting this out there, it will maintain the created divide.

    Keep poking at the socalled ‘whites’ and of course this will strengthen your base which is black voters.

    Hell, can’t other posters, viewers see this? It is so obvious but yet is great for the PLP and all the followers.

    Divide-Conquer-retain-remain. It’s part of the ploy.

    The UBP’s biggest mistake was all the foriegn consultants they had. All the millions they spent on overseas critique and how to run a government.

    All of this is so funny because all the pots and kettles are not being observed for want of being too concerned about whats going on outside the kitchen.

    Meanwhile, the house burns down.

  52. my point was yes, if someone like Obama ran for the PLP, he still would not get the white bermuda vote

    Well given the PLP’s track record on race relations(as evidenced by Dr. Brown’s remarks in the House on Friday) I suspect someone like Obama WOULD NEVER join them to begin with so your comparison fails at the outset.

    Ken, you comment that you don’t write the Colonel’s speeches as a defense for “why he said that” but have no problem relying on his other half-truths (for example that Richards stands to make millions off of a deal when he wont) when attempting to support your point of view. Why the double standard?

  53. “Well given the PLP’s track record on race relations(as evidenced by Dr. Brown’s remarks in the House on Friday) I suspect someone like Obama WOULD NEVER join them to begin with so your comparison fails at the outset.”

    obama didn’t have to race bait- his wife did it for him ( i’m finally proud to be an american) , his pastor did it for him (godamn america), his surrogates did it for him (white sin western penn will not vote for a blk man cuz they’re rednecks).

    as a matter of fact – the unions who supported obama knew that their white members were racists so they sent out pamphlets saying that you can either have a blk friend in the white house or a white enemy there

  54. Wow… SGS actually ragging on President Elect Obama. Innnnteresting.

    The point is, the statement wasn’t about President Elect Obama running for the PLP, it was about if white Bermudians could vote in the US election.

    Nice deflection, though

  55. Well, all I can say is this site is starting to become like others where the propaganda machine trys to take over.

    I imagine since they don’t have the fortitude to write LTE it’s much easier as we all have been accustomed too to use other media.

    So much for the “Big Conversation”. It’s happening here but the loud mouths still hold the mike.

    I think I’ll make a pot of stew, should last me four days. Trying to conserve.

    The Kisskadeese were to overpopulation like Brown is too reconciliation.

  56. Better the propaganda machine out here in the open where we can debunk the lies than hiding behind closed doors.

    What’s the difference between a LTE and here? Not a lot, really. Other than a LTE is a one-time statement of opinion and this, this blogging, is a growing, ever-changing conversation.

    Just wondering why you’re intimating that it’s better (or needing more “fortitude”) to write a LTE than on here? What’s the difference?

    To be honest, I’d rather have the propaganda machine and “loud mouths” than the disruption some have caused on other sites.

    At least you can talk to the machine.

  57. Believe it or not Elvis, LTE are more read than this forum or others. That was my point. Sorta like a ‘stop sign’. Some it, some don’t, others ignore it.

    As for disruption on other sites, I don’t follow that but it could happen here as it does elswhere.

    Now back too the subject. Sorry, I left my wallet home.

  58. SGS,

    Can’t you ever stop being a dick?

    My life is far from hell in MY country. I have a great job(s), great and diverse friends, a big family and some of the most beautiful scenery in the world to look at everyday.

    It is you and your mother that live in hell everyday. I mean I would hate to wake up every morning and automatically see racism at every turn and with every action I do. That must be like the paranoia you get from smoking too much weed. But you are sick enough and don’t need the help of narcotics.

    Now fuck off you ignorant, fat, pathetic, disgusting, racist excuse for a human being unless you are ready to have a constructive dialogue.

  59. “ue, loki, 9ps etc. – god is not on your side – that’s why ur life in bda is hell”

    Huh?

    My life is hell? Lessee. Roof over my head? Check. Good job? Check. Interesting hobbies? Check. Wife who loves and supports me? Check. Friends and family? Check.
    My life ain’t too shabby.

    Let’s look at the cons that affect me, personally. Financial crisis? Yeah… that’s God trying to get me. Lack of tourism in Bermuda? Yep… that’s god again. Absolutely no entertainment industry on the island? Oh, yes! That’s ol’ Jehovah teaching me a lesson ‘cuz I’m white.
    A leader who spews racist obscenities? That must be God , too.

    Tigga, I mean SGS… you’ve lost it, again, if you have to revert to these tactics.

    Same ol’ same from you.

    Someone says something negative about the PLP and you come in attacking all ’round like a pitbull, distracting from the truth, spreading lies, hatred, racism and rhetoric.

    How ’bout saying something of interest or at least somewhere NEAR the truth, so we can have a conversation? Or are you just going to play the same games?

    Your choice. God’s apparantly on your side.

  60. Possibly if you all used the “ingore button” and used the mental approach that was asked for on other sites you would not be responding to this individual. It’s quite simple to keep the topic going yet some just can’t keep away from the bait that is destroying all dialogue and comments.

    But some do have a habit of trying to be in the forefront as their only concern.

    Personally, I think Dr. Brown looks great in Cedar coloured suits. Tan, light or dark is still a semblance of brown.

    Will the Hon.Dr. Brown be required to carry one of these cards? And if not, why not?

    Any comments on that?

  61. Regarding the cards above, how about integrating them with your drivers license and making carrying it mandatory for everyone in Bermuda. That way you’re not singling out a particular segment of the population…..which I’m completely against.

    Wow, I couldn’t believe (Well then again, yes I could) that Brown was said this about white Bermudian voters. He simply doesn’t get it, or chooses not to hear most whites, but rather paints us all with a rather large brush. Most whites I know were for Obama and speaking for myself, I was interested in his campaign before Brown even mentioned it. Brown is either so old that he’s stuck in his ways and mentality due to a closed mind, or he’s just being an asshole.

  62. Too true, Fullish. Over on the forums, it’s been said that this ID thing should be for ALL residents, local and foreign.
    If it’s just for convenience, then let’s all have them. That way, there’ll be no hassles if a Bermudian doesn’t “look” Bermudian.

  63. Brown is either so old that he’s stuck in his ways and mentality due to a closed mind, or he’s just being an asshole.

    Is the really an either/or question 🙂

  64. It’s neither “either/or. He is or he is’nt.

    And, he does have ties to Black Power groups of years past. One only has to read here and other sites plus some local paper reports.

    Am I missing something here? 32-64, the island is still there/here and yes the past will always be there. It’s called history. Now thats poetic I must say. History? His-Story.
    Nothing of substance here except recognition by some.
    Sorry, my wallet is in my car and that thing over there just stole it. What about my car and my ID? Jail?

    I guess I have some idea of how Larry Dennis feels. Wonder if Dennis has a .

  65. Mr. Elvis, please define “Look Bermudian”.
    This thread has gone from sublime to extreme.

    Would an answer be defined as what one has read in the daily or be consrued as to what people think. Think about what?

  66. Col. Birch/Burch says he sent one Jamaican home. Is this not what Homeland Security does? Shit, we have people who have lived here for over 50 years, established, yet we send one home?

    If there is any time to stand up, it is now. The old Front Street that no longer exists, the monies gone yet play the part of “Sun Rise Sunset”.

    I feel a long drawn out capitalistic revenge performance about to comwe to the forefront.

    Reminds me of Cutter and Bucks last stand. Throw in a few arrows.

    Actually, recent events in Western what ever they call themselves perculates as some turn down the flame.

    Yes, Dr. Brown is the Premier. So deal with it.

  67. Blankman, I need to set the record straight. Grace Bell was a member of the UBP who crossed the floor a few weeks/months before the 1998 election, which means that she was a PLP backbencher for a very short period of time. She did run a “cleaning company” but I don’t know if she hired Bermudians or expat workers. If you call Everest DaCosta and ask the question, I’m sure she’ll be happy to give you the correct information as she contributes to his show on a regular basis.

    Jonathan, as you are not a reporter, the only information you have on Col. Burch’s press release is what you have read in either the Royal Gazette or the Bermuda Sun. You have not seen his release in its entirety. If you are interested in reading what he actually said, I can provide that information for you. As far as the amount of money “being pumped into the scheme”, you only know what the Royal Gazette has reported, not what Col. Burch actually said.

    You also state that the “Government workforce was chronically underpaid”. Can you give us facts and figures on this assertion? Who do you consider to be “big ups” who enjoy nice lunches”? Can you be more specific?

    Alsys, I will forgive you because of what I perceive to be your age. The reason Col. Burch referred to the “Gestapo” was because of response /comments given by the Opposition and others when this initiative was first mooted by the PLP several years ago. Do your research and you will see how people referred to the initiative of identifying guest workers as “Gestapo” like tactics.

    I can’t remember who asked if Dr. Brown would be required to carry one of these cards, but if he is required to carry one, certainly there are a whole lot of other people who will be required to carry one of those cards. If you want me to go into details, I can.

    By the way, what Dr. Brown actually said in Parliament, is if Americans voted like Bermudians, John McCain would be the president-elect today, not Barack Obama.

    LaVerne Fubert

  68. “Alsys, I will forgive you because of what I perceive to be your age”.

    “I will forgive?”

    My God – membership of the PLP is akin to the rights of a priest now.

    I can’t recall a more condescending remark if I am honest.

  69. Ms. Furbert,

    If you want me to go into details, I can.

    Please do. I, for one, would be very interested in details.

    Also, if you wouldn’t mind too much, may I get a copy of what Lt. Col. Burch actually said, as well? As you may know, I like to have the facts to base my statements on.

    Thanks and all the best,

    Uncle E.

  70. I don’t know about you two, 9PS and Blankman, but I’d say that to be described as ‘evil’ by one of the worst kinds of racist filth imaginable is some kind of badge of honour.

  71. I don’t know about you two, 9PS and Blankman, but I’d say that to be described as ‘evil’ by one of the worst kinds of racist filth imaginable is some kind of badge of honour.

    Agreed. He’s just paid us all a very high compliment.

  72. Morning LaVerne,

    You may have missed the link I made to the Bermuda Sun’s article that was Senator Burch’s entire statement, and I base dmy comments (the $3 million for example) based on that. If Senator Burch said otherwise, then he should sue that paper for altering his statements. Should you have alternate information then it behooves you to provide it rather than to merely allude to it, especially when the available information frankly contradicts your alluded position.

    As for government workers, that comes from my own personal experiences as a government employee, and the big ups would more precisely be Permanent Secretaries, Ministers and consultants.

    Maybe seantor burch made the reference to ‘Gestapo tactics’ based on past murmurings on this, but the fact is that he himself brought up the reference to Nazi Germany, not Senator Richards, and so his attack on that issue is completely hypocritical.

  73. Details? awesome! please enlighten us

    Seriously… do it, dare ya. Instead of your usual ‘I know the truth but you don’t, but I can tell you if you want…’ followed by silence. DO IT! Go for it, maybe we’re wrong but we’ll never know if you don’t tell us why we’re wrong now will we? Step up, stop playing rhetorical games… sh!t or get off the pot as they say

  74. As far as the amount of money “being pumped into the scheme”, you only know what the Royal Gazette has reported, not what Col. Burch actually said.

    Well he actually said the BITS contract was costing $3m but was purposefully elusive and vague about how the funds were being allocated knowing full well there is an overseas contractor involved doing the bulk of the work and therefore receiving the lion’s share of the funds. Who’s being deceitful now?

    He also remarked that Mr. Richards was being dishonest for failing to disclose his personal interest in BITS when criticizing the scheme. His exact words were As a result of such a public display of dishonesty – I have ordered a review of his firm’s contract for this work with a view to canceling it.

    Well it looks like Mr. Burch should take some notes because if an elected official is critical of a scheme that in any way benefits his own bank account then that’s “a good thing”. I have yet to hear or see Zane DeSilva moan about there begging too many contracts given to Island Construction to pave “paradise to put up a parking lot”.

    Furthermore if Mr. Richards’ interest in BITS has been disclosed in the Register of Interests (as he has stated) how can he be accused of being “dishonest”? Speaking of which Mrs. Furbert, as you make continuous references to ensuring all relevant “facts” are known (before attempting to criticize anyone in the PLP led government) can you please post Dr. Brown’s entry in the Register (if one actually exists) together with every other MP? Better yet, show us where this information is available online for all Bermudians to see as well as transcripts from every Parliamentary session. If they don’t exist, who’s being deceptive now?

  75. Ms. Furbert,
    “I can’t remember who asked if Dr. Brown would be required to carry one of these cards

    Correct me if I’m wrong but I doubt that Dr. Brown would be required to carry one of them as he’s Bermudian and as the leader of another Country he was required to give up his US citizenship. That’s US law at least, unless I’ve missed something.

    To correct you, here’s the exact quote from the paper:

    “If you looked at the voting patterns in Bermuda, which all vote in lines, if whites in Bermuda were to vote in the US using the same lines, they would have voted for the other man.”

    Is this not sterotyping? I could very well issue a comment stating that blacks are all thugs by looking at the superficial population of our prisons instead of looking deeper at the causes, however I know this is not true in the least. I know that much of the reason is that blacks are in the majority on the Island, blacks have had economic and social downfalls to over come over the years due to segregation, racism and white interests. I wouldn’t ever issue a comment like what Dr. Brown said, or what I used as an example above as it’s dishonest and irresponsible at the least. Did you ever think that the reason most whites don’t join the PLP is due to the constant slap in the face they get for something as stupid as their skin colour? (That’s starting to sound familiar isn’t it?) Personally, it’s not cause I feel more comfortable in a room full of white people (which actually gives me the creeps, and I say that as a white guy), as opposed to being in a room full of black people, but it’s cause I’d be MADE to feel uncomfortable in the PLP party. You have to admit that comments portrayed above aren’t exactly inviting, and I’m not about to suggest that I’m supposed to be made comfortable, but I’m not about to be painted as “evil white guy” either. Lets put it this way, you perceive the UBP to be a white, racist, elitist organisation by way of conduct in the past by the party, isn’t this why you have never joined the UBP? My dear, we are but two sides of the same coin…..I took offense to what Dr. Brown said on a personal level, as did many other whites, simply because it was untrue. Many of us are waiting with baited breath to see what he can do and I’d be out in the front lines cheering him on.

  76. Jonathan,

    I don’t think it behooves me to provide any more information than I already have. Senator Burch made a statement on Monday, November 17th in which he stated “What has been characterised as ‘Nazi Germany tactics’…. Bob Richards made a statement on Friday, November 15th in which he stated “It smacks heaving of Nazi Germany where people had to carry ID papers”. So
    is Bob Richards right and Senator Burch wrong? Just asking.

    As far as Permanent Secretaries making more money that any workers, would this not be because they have more responsibility? Their wages are negotiated it for by the same team that negotiates for every other government workers. By the way, I think that PS’s make more money than ministers right now.

    Why is it okay for Bob Richards to outsource his contracts but yet when the Dept of Tourism did it the other day there was a huge hue and cry from some in the community.

    Yes Full Fullish, you missed something. In post # 69 Cahow writes “Will the Hon.Dr. Brown be required to carry one of these cards? Will Louise Jackson be required to carry one of the cards?

    As far as Dr. Brown’s comments about whites in Bermuda voting for the UBP and not the PLP, it’s too bad you offended because it is a fact of life. All the statistics point to the same fact – at least 95% of whites in Bermuda vote for the UBP. This just didn’t happen since Dr. Brown became Premier, it’s been happening since 1968. And by the way, there are some whites who know this to be true and therefore they are not offended by it.

  77. “I don’t think it behooves me to provide any more information than I already have.”

    Well given your inabiltiy to tell the truth I think it would be in your best ineterest to provide information to back up your claims. Or else one has to assume that they are nothing but more of Laverne’s lies.

    Also the figure which was quoted in the papers is also quoted on PLP.bm as well as the PLP youth blog. So are they misinformed or just lying as well?

  78. “Why is it okay for Bob Richards to outsource his contracts but yet when the Dept of Tourism did it the other day there was a huge hue and cry from some in the community.”

    Because the DoT is a Government department run by a so called “labor” government who’s life long mantra is to fight for BDA’s labor and to ensure their propsoerity. $75mn of our money is now being paid to overseas consultants. The main word being overseas nad not Bermudian. Defend that.

    Mr. Richard’s business is a private venture with no such stated goal or objective. Apples and Oranges Laverne.

    PS: I love how you conveinently ignored my challenge in the last thread. You know the one where you dared me to challenge you and you would provide some form of rebuttal. Well I am still waiting and will be more than happy to provide the post to refresh your memory. What a strong woman you are huh? Make claims and then run away. Strong i tell you. What a role model for all!!

  79. “As far as Dr. Brown’s comments about whites in Bermuda voting for the UBP and not the PLP, it’s too bad you offended because it is a fact of life. All the statistics point to the same fact – at least 95% of whites in Bermuda vote for the UBP. This just didn’t happen since Dr. Brown became Premier, it’s been happening since 1968. And by the way, there are some whites who know this to be true and therefore they are not offended by it.”

    No, no it’s not. It is a gross misrepresentation of the truth and an arrogant assumption. Completely untrue.

    President Elect Obama is in no way affiliated with the PLP, has no similarity to the current administration, his campaign in no way resembles ANY of the campaigns the PLP has run. The ONLY thing he has in common with the majority of the membership of the PLP is the colour of his skin.

    That’s it.

    President Elect Obama is NOT the PLP and to say that White Bermudians wouldn’t vote for Mr. Obama because they don’t vote PLP is a ridiculous statement, obviously designed as a racist attack on folks, based solely on the colour of their skin.

    It is NOT a fact of life, it is an obscene, racist comment from the leader of our Country and it disgusts and saddens me that this is allowed to go on and, even worse, defended by people!

  80. Post# 76 “You have not seen his release in its entirety. If you are interested in reading what he actually said, I can provide that information for you.”

    Post# 88 “I don’t think it behooves me to provide any more information than I already have”

    So why the sudden change of heart? i guess you didn’t expect anyone to call you up on your offer. Or is it because the speech which you can obtain has been regurgitated word for word in the RG and Sun and thus render you a liar once again? Honest question, as your posts once again contradict one another. Run away and hide now as cowards do…

    Glad your back Verney baby. You should have been a grave digger or a kick boxer, cause you are an expert on digging holes for yourself and putting your foot in your mouth at every opportunity.

  81. Ms. Furbert,
    While UE said it first, allow me to back this up. It is NOT a fact, that is Your and Dr. Brown’s opinion and while the two of you are entitled to it, it does not make it correct. Now THAT is a fact. Obama is someone I would have voted for simply cause his message was all inclusive and not divisive, which I find the complete opposite of the current PLP party. May be if the PLP stopped the racially divisive tactics that spew forward on a regular basis, they would attract a lot more white members. Laverne, if I may, it’s a new generation and today’s generation of whites and blacks are making up their own minds, not having their minds made up for them. What the PLP is doing is not healthy for the future of Bermuda, it’s causing the rift to grow. But I guess many people already know this and are out for a short term gain….

  82. While Full Fullish and Uncle Elvis may disagree that if whites in America voted like whites in Bermuda, Barack Obama would not be the president-elect today, there are many others who agree with Dr. Brown assertion, and I am one of them. I need not say any more.

    What you are actually saying is not matter what, who leads the PLP and what is contained in their Platform, whites (as you see it) in Bermuda will not vote for the PLP. So be it. The last three elections have shown that the PLP really does not need the “white vote” to become the Government.

  83. Ms. Furbert,
    No what I’m saying is that whites as a whole will probably not support the PLP due to the current leadership and the garbage that comes out of their mouth. I believe that the PLP had much more white support in 98 but have lost it due to comments that are not inclusive and divisive in nature.

    Wow, that’s a pretty arrogant stance you have there. I’m glad it’s in black and white for everyone to see. You see, Ms. Furbert, it’s comments like that, that I’m referring to. It’s abrasive and minimizes a not so small segment of the population. Not very Obama-Esq if you ask me. While what you say is true, just remember that neglecting and ostracizing any segment of the population smacks in the face of the exact same principles that the PLP were founded on, correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t they inclusiveness and balance amongst the races?

  84. “All the statistics point to the same fact – at least 95% of whites in Bermuda vote for the UBP.”

    Ok, I think everybody will agree on this fact. But how does this show that whites (from Bermuda) would not vote for Obama? The last time I checked the UBP had many black candidates and were, in fact, lead by a black man. So, if whites from Bermuda can, and actually do, vote for blacks I just don’t understand the Prem’s assertion that whites would not vote for him if given the chance.

    Can anybody explain this one to me?

  85. No, that’s actually what YOU are saying. It’s the complete opposite of what I am saying.

    As for agreeing with the assertion… well… that’s just wrong. It’s incorrect and, unlike what I and others have done, you have nothing to back up the assertion, other than slippery evasions of the actual point.

    No one said anything about “Whites in America vot[ing] like whites in Bermuda”. That wasn’t the assertion.

    You have completely rewritten what has been said and, more importantly to me, what I said.

    Please don’t do that. I have never disrespected you like that. Please don’t disrespect me by misquoting me.

    Now, if you’d like to talk about WHY this assertion, the ACTUAL one, is incorrect, then fine. If not, please let me know and we’ll drop it.
    I would have thought you’d be above these little games.

  86. “The last three elections have shown that the PLP really does not need the “white vote” to become the Government.”

    A disgusting comment from an equally disgusting woman who has rasied a disgusting son. PLP all inclusive party my a**!! You are unbelieveable and the only people that agree with you and Dr. Brown in regards to comments like that are equally ignorant, intolerant and hate filled individuals like both of you that do not wish for any type of reconciliation to occur in OUR island. You old idiots just need to step down and the let the future take over the reigns.

    You are a coward Laverne. You make outrageous and ignorant statements and then run and hide when the truth is pushed int your face. Pathetic old bag you are.

  87. UE, you seem to have a problem with Rummy. I am not Rummy. You also seem to have fits with people of opposing views or sentiments. Of course this is slightly off topic but similar.
    Everything you say on most local sites is just about the same. You defend your stance yet try to incorporate your own views.

    Mrs. Furbert. Please quit this silly ‘slight of hand’. It is quite obvious what you are doing since you have baited, caught, and hauled in most of Bermuda’s prolific psoters on all sites.

    One must assume, that as the “online” spokesperson for the spin and dry cycle of the PLP your good at what you do. I can see between the lines whilst others engage you continuously over the same things.

    It’s like the Young and the Restless, boring and knowing exactly what will be said next.

    It’s fun and games to most that spend their time online but what are they and you doing really to negate the negative and help with the bonding and healing of Bermuda.?

    Very soon the economy will show it’s face and tensions will rise one more degree etc.

    It’s time to clear the air and move on.

    As for the “white vote”, that is neither here nor there. History has proven for years where people cast their vote. The PLP will always be in power until such time as the younger voters reflect and realise that choices have been made that do no justice for and too the future.

  88. Rummy, this topic isn’t about your ridiculous, misguided opinions of me nor is a bizarre commentary on how I post appropriate. Please leave that out.

    Ms. Furbert,

    You said “What you are actually saying is not matter what, who leads the PLP and what is contained in their Platform, whites (as you see it) in Bermuda will not vote for the PLP.”

    If you wouldn’t mind too much, would you be so kind as to point out the different posts of mine that led you to this assertion? I’m really confused as to how you came to it.

  89. I really find the whole statement by Dr. Brown about whites and Obama to be quite ridicolous, both in its original articulation and in its intepretation be people. First off Dr. Brown was saying that IF White Americans voted along the same lines as White Bermudians then they would not have voted for Obama. This is because White Bermudians do historically vote en bloc for the UBP. He was not saying that White Bermudians would not have voted for Obama had they had the right to vote in the US. But the main ridicolous thing of it is that the situation in the US is nowhere near the same as in Bermuda. The PLP is not the US Democratic Party, and the race/class issues in the US are totally diferrent than in Bermuda. If the US had a race breakdown anywhere near comparable to ours, and if they had a two party system with similar racial correlates, then there would potentially be a possible comparison. But in the existing system Obama is more similar to a majority White Party having a minority Black candidate (actually, thats exactly what it is). White Bermudians have shown well enough over time that they are willing to vote for a majority White Party that has Black candidates. As such, and I’ve tried to point this out throughout the whole presidential campaign, Obama’s candidacy is more in line with UBPism than anything else, and the UBPers will seek to exploit this fact and attack the PLP with it. Dr. Brown’s analogy was totally counter to reality and only undermines his underlying thesis.

    Now, back to the topic at hand…

    LaVerne, you alluded that I did not have access to all the information regarding the costs of the ID card initiative due to the filter of the media. You suggested that you could provide information that contradicted the media’s presentation. I pointed out that if you had such information it behooved you, in that it would strengthen your position, to put it out there (and surely it should be anyway) in the public domain. The fact that I was basing my position on the actual press release quoted in full from the Sun, and that the Party’s PRO apparently has the same information as I (but not you?) only makes your position all the more questionable.

    As to the Nazi references, it astounds me how you cannot see that Senator Burch himself made references to Nazi Germany in the initial press release, and as such it is the acme of idiocy to attack Senator Richards for referring to the ID cards in such a manner. We can argue better than that particualr example of abysmal reasoning by Senator Burch I’m sure.

    Senator Burch was wrong in making reference to Nazi Germany in the first place, Senator Richards was wrong in continuing that connection, and Senator Burch was just plain foolish in attacking Senator Richards for referring to the initiative in way that he himself did. None of them are right in this and its all really quite, well, stupid. Childish even.

    As to the big-ups, I was referring more to luxuries than their pay.

  90. I’ll respond to you one at a time:
    Cahow – your first on my list.
    “Mrs. Furbert. Please quit this silly ’slight of hand’. It is quite obvious what you are doing since you have baited, caught, and hauled in most of Bermuda’s prolific psoters on all sites”. Believe it or not, I’ve written/posted what I believe to be true. It is unfortunate that “Bermuda’s most prolific posters have a problem with my opinion. I express my opinion and they express their opinion. Isn’t that what democracy is all about? And by the way, I don’t post on “all sites” even though I note that “all sites” like to refer to my postings here on this site on other sites, like “Bermuda Sucks”. I have occasionally posted on “Bermuda Fables”, it’s obvious that the Alsys would rather post on other sites than have her own debate going.

    “As for the “white vote”, that is neither here nor there. History has proven for years where people cast their vote. The PLP will always be in power until such time as the younger voters reflect and realise that choices have been made that do no justice for and too the future.”

    Keep in mind that I am the mother of two sons who are “younger voters” then me, and I remain constantly in contact with other “younger voters”. None of the “younger voters” with whom I talk to seem interested in voting for the UBP. If these “younger voters” are interested in starting a third party, I say more power to them.

    9ps “You are a coward Laverne”. You know what I look like, where I work, who my sons are. Who’s the coward? Show me your face, tell me your name, and then we’ll see who is the coward. Can you imagine what I would say if I chose to use a name like “9ps”, or “Smoking Gun”, or “Uncle Elvis” or “Casual Observer” to post on this site, or any other site. As I’ve said a thousand times, I’ve never hidden behind anonymity and I can’t see myself doing it in the future. And by the way, don’t give me the response that my son does it. What does your mother do?

    Golfer
    “The last time I checked the UBP had many black candidates and were, in fact, lead by a black man.” Golfer, there is no way in hell that we can compare Kim Swan to Barack Obama. Everybody knows that Kim Swan is the Opposition Leader because nobody else wanted to be the Opposition Leader.

    Full Fullish, as I said earlier, the PLP does not need the “white vote” to win elections. However the UBP needs black votes to win, hence they’re now in the Opposition. You may think that Obama is the saviour, but I see him as a man who needs the support of a variety of people to be successful, no different from any other person in a leadership position. Neither you, nor I, can assume how Barack Obama would react if he were running for a leadership position in Bermuda. However, the facts speak for themselves. 90+% of white Bermudians voted for the UBP in 2007 and 90+% of white Bermudians voted for the UBP in 1968. Now if you want to talk about change, I’m game.

    As far as ostracizing a segment of the community, I would suggest that you study the history of Bermuda.

  91. Nnnnot quite, Jonny.

    According to the Gazette, ” Dr. Brown said: “If you looked at the voting patterns in Bermuda, which all vote in lines, if whites in Bermuda were to vote in the US using the same lines, they would have voted for the other man.”

    That’s a little different from “IF White Americans voted along the same lines as White Bermudians then they would not have voted for Obama.”

    And, of course, it’s provably incorrect, as you said (If I may paraphrase what you said).
    It is based on an arrogant and racist assumption that, simply because then-Senator Obama is a black man, he should instantly be likened to the PLP.

    He then goes on to confuse the issue further with:
    He asked the House of Assembly: “If Barack Obama was a member of the UBP, what would his experience be?”

    Well, as history has proved, in that case, white folks wouldn’t have a problem voting for him, which kinda negates the initial concept that white voters wouldn’t vote for him based on race.

    But that doesn’t really synch up with the “UBP=Evil=White=Racist/PLP=Good=Black=Inclusive” thing that’s been promoted so hard, does it?

  92. Laverne,

    “Golfer, there is no way in hell that we can compare Kim Swan to Barack Obama. Everybody knows that Kim Swan is the Opposition Leader because nobody else wanted to be the Opposition Leader.”

    My point was that if whites are able to vote for a party lead by a black man in Bermuda, why wouldn’t they be able to do so in America? It’s not as if Kim Swan was the first black leader of the UBP. Since 1968 the majority of the UBP leaders have been black. So if, as you have shown (and I believe to be true), whites have consistently voted for the UBP in large numbers (>90%)one must assume that white Bermudians have no problem voting for a party with black leaders…or am I wrong to assume this?

    And as an aside, the UBP is the ‘white party’ because most whites vote for it. The UBP is not the ‘white party’ because the party is dominated by white politicians. Look at the last election, the majority of the candidates were black. The leader was black. This trend holds true as we go back into history. To therefore assume that white Bermudians would vote for the ‘white party’ and would abstain from voting for a black candidate (i.e. Barack Obama) is disingenuous and does little to move race relations forward in Bermuda – it also doesn’t represent the true history of white voting patterns in Bermuda.

  93. Am I the only one that thinks the closest comparison of US voting and American voting would be that a significant chunk of Bermuda’s population will ONLY vote for a black candidate, while a significant chunk of America’s population will ONLY vote for a white candidate?

    It seems to me that these hardcore ‘racist’ whites in Bermuda who support the UBP are still voting for black candidates, because there aren’t that many white UBP candidates. On the other hand, the hardcore ‘racist’ blacks in Bermuda have the option to exclusively vote for black candidates, as the PLP are for all intensive purposes, completely black.

    Similarly in the US, there are many blacks that are forced to vote for a white candidate because there isn’t a black candidate in their area (except presidential, but Bermuda doesn’t elect a ‘president’ alone). However there are whites that can exclusively vote for white candidates, because there is always that option.

    So in the US its only possible to always vote for your race if you’re white, and in Bermuda its only possible to just vote for your race if you’re black.

    Put another way, given the proportion of votes in the last election for the UBP, the majority of white voters actually voted for a black candidate. I believe the expression, therefore Dr. Brown/Ms. Furbert, is “I’m sorry, we were wrong”.

  94. Just a quick response to Ms Furbert, I choose to post on other sites AS well as my own site, wherever the conversation is. One does not negate the other… and I’m not exactly sure why you are chastising me for that.

  95. Jonathan,

    You will read somewhere above where I pointed out that Bob Richards made his statement in the House about “Nazi Germany” on Friday, November 14, 2008, and Col. Burch’s press statement was made on Monday, November 14, 2008. Additionally about 5 years ago, Arthur Hodgson made a similar suggestion, and some in the community labled his suggestion as “Gestapo-like” tactics. I always do my research before I write anything. But, I am surprised at your reaction to the whole debate.

    Alsys, I was responding to 9ps who called me a coward. My point is that cowards don’t use their own names when posting or giving their opinion publicly.

    I won’t go into the voting patterns of Bermudian whites anymore, the record speaks for itself.

  96. “Alsys, I was responding to 9ps who called me a coward. My point is that cowards don’t use their own names when posting or giving their opinion publicly”

    No but cowards run away when and refuse to respond to questions when posed to them. it’s easy to make outrageous and false statements and then refuse to answer any form of rebuttal. I understand that you don’t want to because they will reveal your lies and half truths. So that makes you a bigger coward than the average person as well as a liar. Keep up the good work you old coward.

  97. “I won’t go into the voting patterns of Bermudian whites anymore, the record speaks for itself”

    Is that a resignation that you were wrong?

    The record is that whites in Bermuda vote UBP. The majority of UBP candidates are black. Therefore the majority of of white Bermudians vote for black candidates.

    And your point was?

  98. Laverne,

    “My point was/is that the majority of whites vote for the UBP, no matter race, creed or colour.”

    So how does this compare to the Prem telling us that whites would not have voted for Obama (due to the colour of his skin?). If whites only vote for the UBP was he implying that whites would only vote Republican in the US? There was a racist assumption in what he (and yourself) was saying, but that assumption was flawed. Whites have, and will continue to, vote for black candidates in Bermuda. This has never been a problem of white Bermuda. How does voting for the UBP prove whites would not have voted for Obama? I’m not seeing the connection.

  99. Gender Democrats
    Male 42.4
    Female 57.6
    Race
    White 67.5 (65.7)
    Black 18.0 (19.3)
    Hispanic 10.7 (11.2)
    Asian 2.1 (2.1)
    Other 1.7 (1.7)

    Gender Republicans
    Male 53.6
    Female 46.4
    Race
    White 90.6 (88.9)
    Black 2.0 (2.3)
    Hispanic 4.8 (5.9)
    Asian 1.3 (1.6)
    Other 1.3 (1.3)

    Both of these parties are “white” majortity. (Mind this is based on the 2008 primaries exit polls. I’m trying to find more information pre-Barack)

  100. I don’t think that Dr. Brown said that “whites would not have voted for Obama (due to the colour of his skin). According to the Royal Gazette, “He said that voting patterns in Bermuda showed that whites choose the United Bermuda Party over the Progressive Labour Party at the polls.

    Dr. Brown said: “If you looked at the voting patterns in Bermuda, which all vote in lines, if whites in Bermuda were to vote in the US using the same lines, they would have voted for the other man.”

    The fact of the matter remains that 90+% of whites in Bermuda vote for the UBP, not for change.

  101. What does that have to do with Barack Obama? Are you actually saying that, because white folks don’t vote for the PLP, they wouldn’t vote for Mr. Obama?
    What POSSIBLE similarity does the President Elect have with the PLP?

    The fact of the matter is that voting for the UBP does not have anything to do with voting for Mr. Obama.
    Voting for the UBP does NOT mean that white voters wouldn’t vote for a black man. In fact, it means the opposite.

    I note that you have once again ignored my post. Is there a reason for that?

    Oh.. and, once again…

    Can you imagine what I would say if I chose to use a name like… “Uncle Elvis”… to post on this site, or any other site. As I’ve said a thousand times, I’ve never hidden behind anonymity and I can’t see myself doing it in the future.”

    And once again, neither have I. I don’t know why you insist on bringing me into your attack against anonymity, but I’m going to have to ask again… Using me as an example of someone who hides behind a pen-name is ludicrous, as I do not. Would you denounce Bootsie, the comedian, for not using his real name? No? Then why me?
    Or is it just something you know will irk me, so you do it?

    90+% of white Bermudians voted for the UBP in 2007 and 90+% of white Bermudians voted for the UBP in 1968. Now if you want to talk about change, I’m game.

    Fine… let’s talk about it.
    What does this have to do with President Elect Obama? How do the voting trends in Bermuda have ANYTHING to do with whether or not they’d vote for Mr. Obama?
    Seriously. ANY correlation. ANYTHING? Any sort of link. Any link at all. ANY similarity.

    Whatcha got. Let’s talk about it.

  102. of course the Elephant in the room (no, not the one bashing her fists on the BIU laptop) that Lavernicus can’t look at is how many whites voted for black candidates in the last election.

    How many whites voted for the sparkling vision of change expressed as fascists locking us black folk up or the change that is not voting oneself back into slavery – and this crapola from the vanguard of the PLP youth….

    Just FYI Laverne – I don’t post under my real name as I don’t have any issues over public affirmation, I get enough of that in my day job.

  103. My point is, much like others, there is no correlation between the Democrats/Republicans and PLP/UBP. The racial makeup of both the US population and their leading two parties is completely and utterly different to that of Bermuda.

  104. Can I just ask, if anyone knows cause I couldn’t tell from the RG, what exactly was the relevance of the statement, and following question of how Barack would have treated in Bermuda as a member of the UBP, by the Premier? Was he just making conversation or was there a point(relevant to, you know, House of Assembly business)?

  105. “My point is that cowards don’t use their own names when posting or giving their opinion publicly.”

    It’s official. Laverne Furbert called her son Vance a coward.

  106. Ms. Furbert,
    However, the facts speak for themselves. 90+% of white Bermudians voted for the UBP in 2007 and 90+% of white Bermudians voted for the UBP in 1968. Now if you want to talk about change, I’m game. As far as ostracizing a segment of the community, I would suggest that you study the history of Bermuda.

    So your stating that there is no difference in the racial mentality between 1968 and 2008? Seriously? I would have hoped that things would have improved since then. Again, I believe that the reason why the PLP don’t attract more of the white vote is that the PLP have gone out of their way to turn them off. Again, I believe that the PLP had a better chance at a healthier mix back in 98 but lost it due to catch phrases. Point blank, it’s my opinion that the PLP galvanize the black vote using racially charge rhetoric and emotion and as such bank on the fact that they don’t need the white vote. While strategically sound in nature, for now, it is still not healthy for Bermuda as a whole. Looking at history, as you advised me to, history has proven that marginalizing a segment of the population only makes matters worse. Now if you want to talk about change, serious change where by government is inclusive and a political party acts for the best interests of Bermudians, regardless of colour, creed, etc. as a whole, then I’m game too.

  107. Uncle Elvis,

    I am not comparing Barack Obama to the PLP. How could you compare one person with a group of people. As I said to Alsys, my comment about anonymity was in reaction to 9ps calling me a coward. You can interpret that anyway you choose, but I see “Uncle Elvis” used quite frequently on blogs. I don’t know your real name.

    Full Fullish, you tell me why you think things have not changed since 1968. Most, if not all posters of this site accuse Dr. Brown of using the race card and therefore creating division in the community. As I have said on numerous occasions, Bermuda was racially divided before Dr. Brown was born, and certainly before he became Premier. Are you and others therefore saying that each leader of the PLP since its inception racially divided the country?

    Yes, let’s “talk about change, serious change where by government is inclusive and a political party acts for the best interests of Bermudians, regardless of colour, creed, etc. as a whole, then I’m game too.” Can you cite some examples of how this government has not acted in the best interest of all Bermudians? Can you tell me which policies/initiatives that have been put in place since Novemeber 9, 1998 that have only benefitted one segment of the community?

  108. “Can you cite some examples of how this government has not acted in the best interest of all Bermudians? ”

    How about the constant use of racial thetoic towards one segment of the population to start?

    “Are you and others therefore saying that each leader of the PLP since its inception racially divided the country?”

    Nope definitely not. But Dr. Brown helps to perpetuate and maintain the divide and with comments like that the other day displays that he has no real objective of reconciliation between BDA’s peoples.

  109. Ms. Furbert,

    If you don’t know my name by now, then you have been patently ignoring my posts. I have told you my name several times, on various sites, and even in an email I sent you after the last election, thanking you for your participation. Your son, Vance, certainly knows my name, as we have spoken on Facebook, where I go by my real name and has even indicated that you and he have had conversations about me. I have not “hidden” behind my pseudonym. My identity is out there, for all to see. I was recently the lead in the Gilbert & Sullivan Society’s production of “The Full Monty” and posted about it several times on various sites. I even have my own site where I post as Uncle Elvis, but do not hide my identity.

    If you aren’t comparing Mr. Obama to the PLP, how can you state the “fact” that whites vote for the UBP has anything at all to do with whether or not they would vote for him? How can you back this allegation up in the face of overwhelming evidence, hard evidence, to the contrary? The correlations have been made and they show it to be untrue.
    Do you have any hard evidence that backs it up? I personally don’t think there is any, but what do I know?
    I’m white and I would definitely have voted for Mr. Obama. Then again, I voted PLP in 1998, so…

  110. “My point was/is that the majority of whites vote for the UBP, no matter race, creed or colour.”

    So in your honest, hand on heart opinion, what Dr. Brown was trying to imply by his comments on Obama is that white Bermudian voters are less likely to be swing voters? That was his message, the reason he made the comment.

    His point was NOT to insinuate that white Bermudian voters would not vote for a party run by a black man? His point was not to tie white Bermudian voters to white American conservatives?

    He was simply, in the house, to a large number of people, commenting on the elasticity of white Bermudian voting habits.

    Erm. No.

  111. Yes I can. The constant rehtoric of a Government Blog spokesperson by the name of LaVerne Furbert.

    It benefits one segment by continual trashing of the other and that being white people.

    As has been seen in our House of Assembly by certain MP’s, Ministers and others. It has been seen and documented via the Web which is your forte since your not a member of Parliament or in the Senate or Chairperson of a Government Board.

    Your comments about the lie/s you were called on yet deviate away from them continuously.

    It benefits a certain group of people that are in the majority especially when it comes to voting whether Government wise, Union, even Town Hall meetings.

    It benefits because it keeps them aware and up to date about why we are where we are today and creates a divide that will help in maintaining it.

    Now, child care, schooling, free bus passes etc are only the treats thrown out to keep them pecking.

  112. “but I see “Uncle Elvis” used quite frequently on blogs. I don’t know your real name.”

    I hereby give up. If there was any doubt left, this conclusively proves that there’s absolutely no point in “debating” Ms Furbert since she clearly doesn’t actually read what people write back to her. Suggest everyone just drop it and stop letting this woman derail virtually every single discussion that gets going on here. Stop responding, there’s no point, she doesn’t read anything you write anyway

  113. Afternoon LaVerne,

    going back to your comments in #107:

    You will read somewhere above where I pointed out that Bob Richards made his statement in the House about “Nazi Germany” on Friday, November 14, 2008, and Col. Burch’s press statement was made on Monday, November 14, 2008. Additionally about 5 years ago, Arthur Hodgson made a similar suggestion, and some in the community labled his suggestion as “Gestapo-like” tactics. I always do my research before I write anything. But, I am surprised at your reaction to the whole debate.

    As I say the news reports Senator Burch referred to ‘Gestapo’ in his initial press release. This was followed in a subsequent newsday by Senator Richards referring to the scheme as ‘Nazi’ – as such Senator burch is seen to bring up Nazism first, not Senator Richards. Whether the scheme was referred to as such in the past is completely immaterial to the current argument. we cannot attack Senator Richards for referring to the scheme as Nazi when our own Party member in an official capacity did so first.

    I don’t really know what you are surprised about. Senator burch made a gaffe in his initial response, Senator Richards exploited that gaffe for his own political ends, the truth about the whole scheme was subsequently distorted and Senator Burch then went and ade a bigger gaffe with his reactions to Senator Richards. The whole issue is stupid and I don’t see how the logic (attacking Senator Richards for using the Nazi analogy in particular) can be defended. Its alot better to clear the air and just go on and explain that the cards are merely a replacement of the work permits and sidestep the whole Nazi squablle altogether from now on.

    Similarly the whole topic about Dr. Brown’s statement (and I too am curious how he came about to say it anyway) doesn’t make much sense. We cannot compare the two parties in Bermuda with those in the USA, and the issue serves the interests of the UBP more who have historically had Black candidates for an overwhelmingly White supported and composed Party. Its better to say that the election of Mr. Obama has the potential to affect racial reconciliation but, to paraphrase Mr. Obama himself, his election in and of itself should not be mistaken as racial reconciliation on the cheap but only one very small (yet superficially big) contributory step towards that goal.

    Quite frankly the PLP does not need to court White voters for electoral purposes. But it is in the interest of the long term development of our people as a whole to address the reconciliation issue frankly and not in ways that can be easily misintepreted. The PLP has the potential to develop a greater White voting bloc if it so chooses to do so. The Sustainable Development initiative is a very good way to reach out to significant sectors of the White community while also addressing common Bermudian problems. The ‘big conversation’ also has the potential to do just this, although there are some valid criticisms of the existing implementation that do I feel need addressing.

  114. But it is in the interest of the long term development of our people as a whole to address the reconciliation issue frankly and not in ways that can be easily misintepreted.

    Just thought that needed to be said again.

    I’m curious as to why it’s ok for Ms. Furbert to say, quite happily it seems, that the PLP doesn’t have to court the white vote, when she constantly denounces (and rightly so) those parties and politicians in the past whose attitudes were that they didn’t need to court the black vote, or at least only on a superficial level.

    Why was it bad for the “white oligarchy” to not take care of black folks, but it’s perfectly fine for the PLP to completely ignore the needs and wants and cares of white folks?

    There’s a double standard here and, until it’s addressed, no conversation can come to anything…

  115. Uncle Elvis,
    This is genuine. Could you resend me the e-mail that you sent me after the election. I don’t recall getting an e-mail from someone that I am not familiar with.

  116. I think it is true that the vast majority of White Bermudians – based on census and other data – are in a statistically more substantial position than the vast majority of Black Bermudians; or perhaps it is better worded to say that the class breakdown of our population does not adequately reflect our racial demography. As such the emphasis should be, at a minimum, an attempt to rectify that discrepancy, and I understand that is the current objectives. This was summed up by Alex Scott’s ‘the haves can continue to have but the have nots must have more.’ When people say unless this is addressed their will be social unrest they are not saying that as a threat but simply saying that such inequality will lead to social friction.

    This should not of course mean directly or otherwise antagonising the White segments of the population. Discussing the historical fact and the practical approaches to reconciliation are bound to be uncomfortable, but also unavoidable if we wish to deal with these issues substantially.

    A PLP government should indeed be focusing on fixing these problems, and alot of what they are doing are directly aimed at achieving this minimal objective, although the PR delivery is more often than not … poorly planned … in that it is often easily misintepreted.

    But there are common objectives, especially in the environmental field and to a lesser extent education, housing and healthcare, that have the potential for developing good common relations, with the indirect bonus of even either increasing White PLP support or at least reducing the antagonism. These should be explored, and more care should be taken in phrasing policies.

  117. Cahow,

    I don’t speak for the PLP Government. I speak for myself although I am a member of the Bermuda Progressive Labour Party. The statement was made that this government has enacted policies/iniatives that only benefit one segment on the community. Why get personal?

    Jonathan, as I said, Col. Burch’s press statement was made on Monday, November 17th, Bob Richards’ comments were made in the House of Assembly on Friday, November 14th.

    As far as Dr. Brown’s comments, I was not in the House, do not know what he was responding to, however, I know that the Royal Gazette has taken the whole thing out of context as it is famous for. I do know that the Throne Speech was being debated, and knowing Dr. Brown as I do, he would not just make such comments out of thin air. He is not a stupid man.

    Also Jonathan, I don’t think that I have said that the PLP is a perfect party. The PLP, like all organisations is made up of imperfect people whom I believe are sincere about moving Bermuda forward, although some will disagree. If you have some valid criticisms of the Sustainable Development iniative and the Big Conversation, I would suggest that you address those criticisms to the appropriate people, i.e. Rolfe Commissiong and Arthur Hodgson.

    If people on this blog would stop trying to catch me out, maybe we have a substantive dialogue. I, too, and an imperfect being, however I will continue to do all that I can to “move Bermuda forward”.

  118. Well LaVerne, if you don’t speak for the “PLP government” your nothing but a loose and seperate cannon.

    Plus, you must have a big chip on your shoulder if you thhink by your comments here and elsewhere are “to move Bermuda forward”.

    Why waste my time. Hell, can’t even get a job in the Bahamas. They have layed off 800 in tourism and hotels. Guess were next.

  119. Actually Ms. Furbert. Minister Burch’s announcement was made on the 13th at a press conference. I remember watching it on the news. And I did check the RG also. Bob Richards statements were then made the subsequent day.

  120. Note, I was not trying to catch you out, only pointing out the time sequence which is releavant to the topic at hand (one of the many, lol).

    Also, Jonny and I were not in any way implying that Dr Brown was stupid, simply that it would probably clear things up if it was known the reasons Dr Brown had for making the statements alluded to him (factually erroneous or not).

  121. Jonathan,
    Discussing the historical fact and the practical approaches to reconciliation are bound to be uncomfortable

    No problem here, I understand and feel uncomfortable when the past is brought up and am extremely compassionate towards blacks for what they have had to overcome; but it must be done for a better understanding from us all, however statements that provoke anger in an unjustly attempt to stab at me or my generation from the past just tend to piss me off. I understand the resentment, to a degree (I say this simply cause I am not a black person and therefor can not possibly fully understand what it is like to be black), but I do not understand the rhetoric and sometimes hate filled comments that do not aid in any way shape or form towards bringing the races together, towards someone of my generation who happens to be white and is suddenly seen to share the blame for things that happened well before I was concieved.

  122. I was just over at Bermuda Sucks reading the latest posts and saw one that made me laugh about this guy Charlie Swan and the plumber.

    Only one person can/could write like that then pass it on to another country to be posted on that site. The format and lyrics are a disguise that has been seen before.

    Alsys, don’t be intimidated by this woman. “not trying to catch you out”. Please.

  123. Alsys,

    I did my research, and you are partially correct, Minister Burch made a speech, I think to Rotary, on November 13th and made the “Gestapo” remarks. But as I said previously, that was because a similar initiative by the PLP Government was described as “Gestapo-like”.

    Anyway, the Human Rights Commission has now stated, that the proposed card system is well within the law.

  124. LaVerne, can you please show where the Human Rights Commission said this and where I can find it?

    When did they meet to discuss this?

  125. “Anyway, the Human Rights Commission has now stated, that the proposed card system is well within the law.”

    Which, if true, says absolutely nothing about the morality of the proposed policy changes. Under the Human Rights Act it is also perfectly legal to evict someone from their house or dismiss them from their employment because they happen to be gay.

  126. Starr

    I think you are gentle with the PLP. And I can understand that. They are very sensitive to criticism. Even your gentleness is criticized by them.

    You say: Quite frankly the PLP does not need to court White voters for electoral purposes.

    I say; Actually it really does need to do that. It has to start being a party for everyone.

    Their list of accomplishments is slight. Their list of failures and negligences is long.

    The PLP does not lead. It may lead a portion of the black community but a large part of that community is very ambivalent and have not seen PROGRESS. You say the PLP has PR problems. I would say their have a systemic PR crisis. They lack a unifying policy. “Our supporters know what we are about” may get people to vote for the PLP because they don’t like the alternative. But clearly many of them will not be led by the PLP.

    How has the openly implied policy of “We don’t need the white people” doing? Can such very consistent attitude unite Bermuda? Well, no. Its fundamentally divisive. Great if you want to strengthen the core. But useless for making deals with people who don’t agree with you all the time. Negotiation with your opponents is impossible

    If Bermuda was all black, the PLP’s slap-dash policy wouldn’t stand a chance. Bermuda isn’t all black. That means the PLP can survive if it feeds division. This what it does. Imagination is required to write policy and conduct negotiation. I know the PLP has imagination. But it does not wish to negotiate or write cogent policy. A divisive attitude direct outside the party eventually reflects inside the party. And so we have the charming mess of the Party’s man on education and president of the bank having a cat fight with the union; none of which helped or was particularly appropriate.

    You are soft on the PLP. You seem to be waiting for the moment when they burst forth as the gloriously efficacious organization many of us hoped it would be in 1999. But it hasn’t. It does not lead. It divides. And it has not governed. Education is it’s classic fiasco. This is why people find it so easy to compare it to the UBP of old.

  127. Laverne,

    If you can answer me just one question, I would honestly appreciate it.

    If you were white, can you think of a single reason to vote for Dr. Brown’s PLP? A real reason, the kind that would incentivise a typical white Bermudian to vote PLP.

    Because Dr. Brown’s administration give the white community about 5 reasons a month NOT to vote PLP, so if you find it surprising that the white community don’t get behind the PLP, you must also believe that the PLP represent a compelling choice to a white Bermudian voter, who as is their democratic duty, will vote for what best suits them.

    Obviously this must therefore also be in context of the UBP as an alternative, so for example I don’t consider the PLP’s ‘sound economic management’ as a reason to pick them, because I trust the UBP also have a track record in that department. So put another way, what are the PLP’s differentiating factors that encourage white votes?

  128. Lost In Flatts,

    It is not Dr. Brown’s PLP, anymore that it was Alex Scott’s PLP or Jennifer Smith’s PLP, or Lois Browne-Evans’ PLP. The PLP “belongs” to the members of the Party. Obviously there are some white people in Bermuda, albeit a very small number, who have faith in the PLP under the leadership of Dr. Brown, just as some white people voted and ran for the PLP under other leaders. You should also know that there are some white people in the Bermuda community who did vote for the PLP under the leadership of Dr. Brown.

    I believe that white people should vote for the PLP for the same reason that black people for the PLP. It is a more progressive party. If you look at the PLP’s platform since 1963 you will see that many of the initiatives outlined were adopted by the UBP over the years.

    As far as financial management, the PLP is as competent as the UBP is in managing Bermuda’s economy.

  129. Some PLP Accomplishments Since 1998

    Single seat constituencies to enable fair voting constituencies for the first time!

    Fast ferries to aid traffic congestion!

    Increased tourism arrivals numbers!

    Decreased airfares allowing easier travel to Bermuda!

    Removal of death tax/inheritance tax on primary homestead!

    Implementation of smoke ban in public places!

    Increased pension benefits for seniors!

    Increased doctor’s visits for HIP clients!

    Increased prescription drug allowance for HIP clients!

    Elimination of vehicle licensing fee for seniors!

    Establishment of African Heritage Diaspora trail!

    Establishment of North Hamilton Economic Empowerment zone!

    Implementation of GPS software to aid the transportation industry!

    Establishment of the Bermuda Race Relations Initiative to discuss race in Bermuda

    Construction of the Sylvia Richardson care Facility, and the Rockaway Seniors Facility!

    Increased an on-line TCD to aid in licensing and registration!

    Implemented geared to income housing for BHC Clients!

    Introduced further education awards for mature students and couples, in addition to increasing further education awards across the board!

    Pledged millions of dollars for cricket and football to aid youth development!

    Enacted bladed weapons legislation to combat violent crime!

    Constructed the reverse osmosis plant to aid in water usage!

    Opened the Bermuda Recycling plant for Tin, Aluminum, and Glass!

    Introduced the Environmental Awards Program!

    Allowed competition in the telecommunications industry allowing long distance rates to decrease!

    Gave war vets an increase in benefits and for some the benefits they never got!

    Now give free education for Bermuda Regiment Solders at the Bermuda collage!

    Free Bus rides for Bermuda Regiment Solders!

    Free Tuition for Bermuda College students!

  130. “I believe that white people should vote for the PLP for the same reason that black people for the PLP. It is a more progressive party. If you look at the PLP’s platform since 1963 you will see that many of the initiatives outlined were adopted by the UBP over the years.”

    Fair credit you did provide an answer, but I was looking for something a bit more specific than being ‘progressive’. Take the last election. What were the top 3 things in the PLP’s ‘progressive’ platform that said to white voters: We want the best for you, so please vote for us.

    Because that’s how this has to work.

    Put another way, if Michael Dunkley had come out and said ‘I think black Bermuda needs to be made more uncomfortable’ would you think that he was the best choice for black Bermuda?

  131. Oh and if Mr. Commissiong’s numbers are to be trusted (which I don’t, because they seem high to me, but hey it’s politics so hyperbole will always win) say 98% of voting whites voted UBP, that would leave 2% presumably voting PLP, which in the last election would mean that about 200 white Bermudians voted for Dr. Brown’s PLP. That is an absurdly low number. Either you believe that all but 200 white Bermudians are too racist to vote based on platform, or you have to acknowledge that the PLP don’t do anything to attract the white vote.

    Note that I’m not saying they should, they obviously win quite comfortably without it. It just annoys me when Mr. Commissiong (and Dr. Brown if Mr. Commissiong can be trusted to be interpretting his rather enigmatic comments properly) comes out calling on the white community to come vote PLP, when the PLP has done absoltuely nothing to try and encourage this vote, indeed they actively seem to avoid it.

  132. Hey LiF,

    I wouldn’t agree with the Party coming right out and spelling out something along the lines of ‘we are doing this to attract white votes’ as that would just smack of tokenism. But there are certainly some policy areas that should be explored and would mutually benefit us all with the additional spin-off benefit of correcting some perceptions of the Party. The potential to diversify the voting bases of both parties is close to reaching a critical point with the PLP now having been in power for a decade. A whole new generation has been born since the PLP came to power, and several waves of generations are coming into play now that were not politically aware in 1998 but who have matured under PLP governance.

    Furthermore we have a whole new PLP generation emerging that has done so with the PLP in power, and this has the potential to broaden the Party’s appeal.

    Of course, with the UBP functionally irrelevant on pretty much all counts, that poses a bit of a wildcard.

    But what I think you are really getting at is that certain statements and policies are presented in a way that comes across as directly antagonistic towards White Bermudians. I agree that many comments could certainly have been phrased in a more constructive manner, but I am also of the belief that many Whites do directly misinteprete some of these comments, either due to different social upbringings or due to fearmongering. This ones, where the intepretation is largely broken down by race and political lines do need exploring and discussed rather than reacted to.

  133. “Increased tourism arrivals numbers!”

    While tehre are many notable accomplishments you have posed you cannot be serious about this one? Have you seen the numbers published by the Govt’s Dept. of Statistics? The exact opposite has actually occurred. Spin away now Laverne.

  134. “Establishment of the Bermuda Race Relations Initiative to discuss race in Bermuda”

    So you think that placing one of the most racist individuals as the Chair of race initiative as being progressive? You and your son might as well lead this one if you think Mr. Commissiong is suitable for the role. Not much difference between the three of you.

  135. “Decreased airfares allowing easier travel to Bermuda!”

    Another lie. The government doesn’t determine airfare prices. So take that one off the list as well.

  136. “Single seat constituencies to enable fair voting constituencies for the first time!”

    To anyone but Laverne,

    I have a hard time understanding how this is a fair voting system as compared to the old system To me democracy is about choices and thus having multiple candidates creates more choices for the voter to identify with the potential candidate. Also the increased competition for a constituency forces the candidates to “up their game” in the political realm. Thus if the candidate chosen does not live up to voters expectations they have a multitude of alternate individuals to choose from, instead of just one alternative.

    Can someone with some knowledge on the subject (i.e. not Laverne) please explain why this system wil lallow for a more fair and democratic vote? Genuine question for genuine confusion.

  137. “Establishment of African Heritage Diaspora trail!”

    This one is for you Laverne,

    What exactly has this done to improve the lives of Bermudians?

  138. Ms. Furbert,

    Thanks for the list, I think it’s the same as one posted many moons ago, but no less relevant.
    While we could sit and argue about the PLP influence and successfulness of some of the items on there, I don’t think that is very helpful. Rather this doesn’t actually answer my question.

    My question was what has the PLP done to specifically target or help white voters. Looking down that list I can see something thats are definitely positive, such as the tuition and inheritance tax, but my point is more around the fact the PLP do not actively try to get white voters to choose them.

    Again, if only 200 whites chose to vote PLP last election, and you can produce that big old list of things, why do you believe such a low number voted that way?

  139. Laverne,

    It’s an “interesting” list. Shame that they’re not all true. Of particular note:

    Increased tourism arrivals numbers!

    That statement is completely contradicted by the government’s own statistics.

    Not only are tourism arrivals down to levels that we haven’t seen in years (and the decline started well before the current recession so that’s not an excuse) but cruise ship visits have been drastically reduced over recent years.

    Decreased airfares allowing easier travel to Bermuda!

    And what exactly does the government have to do with what the airlines charge? Unfortunately I don’t have a source for historical airfare levels but I for one haven’t experienced any decrease in recent years.

  140. “Single seat constituencies to enable fair voting constituencies for the first time!”

    I would not consider voting to be ‘fair’ under the PLP government. They pride themselves on ‘one man one vote’ yet have failed to do two things that I feel lead to this motto holding true. The first being their failure to implement an absentee voting system. Without such a system in place they are effectively telling the young students studying abroad (who are mainly affected by this) that we don’t care what you think. I wonder if the PLPs lack of action on this front is because they feel afraid of the youth vote? What a wonderful way to introduce them to local politics than by not allowing them to express their right to vote. And Burt wants to know why the youth are disillusioned with local politics? Look no further than this… The second is the apparent lack of work on re-drawing constituency boundaries to better fit a changing Bermuda. People move (and immigrate) and considerable population change within the constituencies is to be expected. Look at St. David’s in the last election – I believe they had several hundred more voters than last time. Such population changes throw the original idea of equal sized constituencies out the door and must be looked at before the next election. I also find it amusing that the PLP with just 52% of the vote received 61% of the seats. Imagine the uproar if the UBP, with just 48% of the vote, received 57% of the seats! The +9% differential is only ‘ok’ because the PLP are in power. What do you think about this differential Laverne?

  141. Look at St. David’s in the last election – I believe they had several hundred more voters than last time.

    … and if you look further into the nature of this migration one has to wonder if whomever it was that exercised ultimate control over which voters resided in which government housing initiative could have had any impact on overall voter turnout/voting patterns … hm mm.

  142. About the single seat constituencies,

    Under the old format there were imbalances were in one constituency you might have, say, 1000 people, predominantly Black, being able to elect just two MPs, whereas there were some situations with, say, 500 people, predominantly White, who could elect the same number of MPs. Those old constituencies were inherently unfair and led to some people’s votes (largely on racial lines) being worth more or less than others.

    The new constituencies are more or less identical in size and an attempt was made in their redrawing to capture, as much as possible, a representative demographic (race) of the island as a whole. Even with these redrawings there remained essentially ‘safe’ UBP and PLP seats, but the vote was more or less equal in power. The constituencies were drawn up through a random computer generator which produced a few possible constituencies and a bipartisan committee revised this list into the final one that was then voted on by parliament. I believe there is a mechanism within the legislation that calls for their review every x amount of years or as necessary. I may be wrong on some of the details (I have the document back in my dorm, but thats rather several kilometers from me right now), but the document in question is available at the National Library. Anyone else who is able to add to my comments, or correct me, please do so.

    As to the absentee balloting, I’m all for that, but I recognise that it may take some time to put in place. Having said that, we could’ve have get it in place by now, and it should, in my opinion, be put together. I would limit this vote only to those ordinarily resident in Bermuda, such as students studying overseas.

    Overall though the revised constituencies are a great improvement on the old model.

  143. I didn’t mean to imply that there is a problem with single seat constituencies, as I do agree with the idea of them under our current Westminster system. The only real problem I have is with the PLP allowing the status quo to continue when, if the shoe was on the other foot, they would be calling for the UBP to change the inadequacies of the last election. The constituency plan, as drawn up 10 years ago, does not give Bermuda the most competitive election results we could see IMHO. A lack of competitiveness (through ‘safe seats’) leaves many politicians absent from normal constituency and allows them to be complacent in their representational role.
    And although Parish boundaries are an easy way to distinguish between possible constituency boundaries, they are an abstraction from our daily lives and should be left out of the political process. By allowing constituencies to be drawn across Parish boundaries I think we could get more representative constituencies and ones that would ultimately lead to more competitive elections – something that all Bermudians would benefit from.

  144. I guess you want to play Port Royal and Belmont at the same time Golfer?

    You do bring up some valid points though.

  145. Yeah, there are certainly some problems involved with safe seats leading to complacency. a prudent politician however would be out canvassing in their free time (once parliamentary work and family time is taken care of). This is partly to solidify the powerbase, partly to keep a pulse on community issues and partly because it has a spill-over effect to non-strongholds if the committment is shown. Quite frankly, we don’t exhaust in a vacumn, and there are networks between constituencies.

    One way I can see to ensure the effectiveness of politicians would be to allow for a recall, essentially a referendum, where, say, if one third of a constituency signs a petition for a by-election, they should be able to force it. I also think that the Senate should be elected, or if appointed, then this should be based on proportional representation of the popular vote for the House of Assembly. There are quite a few different political options out there and I definitely think they need to be explored.

  146. Golfer,

    Where have you been living? Constituencies are now drawn across parish boundaries. As far as getting rid of “safe seats”, maybe you have some suggestions. Maybe the government can take 500 people out of Pembroke East Central and move them to Paget East, and then move 500 people from Paget East to Pembroke East Central.

    As far as the PLP being afraid of the youth vote, what a ridiculous assertion, especially after reading Jonathan’s post on the PLP and young people. I do believe that a big difference between the PLP and the UBP is that there appears to be more young people involved with the PLP than there are young people involved with the UBP.

    Lost in Flatts, can you suggest some iniatives that the Government should put in place that would benefit whites only?

  147. Cahow,
    Right now I’d take a round anywhere! Being stuck in the cold Canadian winters does little to keep my game up to par! 🙂

    And if anybody can share with me a political system they feel would benefit Bermudians more so than the current Westminster system, I’m all ears. I really feel that with such a small population the odds of making a party comprised of the ‘best of the best’ so to speak is next to impossible given the current two party system. I think a hybrid party made up of both UBP and PLPers is the way to go (or ultimately, the creation of a new party that espouses the goals of each party and is comprised of former UBP and PLPers). I’m not sure how one could achieve this under the current system, or for that matter, how we could change our current system into something more conducive to making real progress for Bermuda, so if anybody has any ideas as to what we can do, ‘I’m game’ for listening to you. 🙂

  148. “Lost in Flatts, can you suggest some iniatives that the Government should put in place that would benefit whites only?”

    You just don’t get it do you? It’s not about policies which solely benefit whites. The point is that the racial terms and rhetoric used by the PLP is a major turn off for any white Bdian to vote for the PLP. Would you vote for a Party that hates you and uses racial terms to define you?

  149. Laverne,

    “Where have you been living? Constituencies are now drawn across parish boundaries.”
    I did not know this to be the case. Thanks for pointing this out to me. The names of each constituency gave me the false impression that boundaries were in fact limited to existing Parish boundaries.

    “I do believe that a big difference between the PLP and the UBP is that there appears to be more young people involved with the PLP than there are young people involved with the UBP.”
    This may be correct, but let’s not confuse politically active youth with the political views that the youth have. I doubt the number of youth involved with the PLP is substantial. And from my own personal experiences, the youth (both black and white) are completely fed up with the current administration. If you can, please get your government to start the absentee ballot ball rolling – I’m sure you have more pull than the (currently) voiceless youth have. And this would actually be something that all Bermudians would be grateful towards you for.

    And are constituencies boundaries drawn based on total population? If so, how do you feel that foreign workers are more than likely included in the calculation when they have been told to ‘stay out of local politics’? How would you feel on having constituencies drawn based on just the Bermudian population? Or what about just the voting population?

    Just ideas to ponder – hopefully you have the time to answer them.

  150. All this “safe seat” crap is just that, ‘crap’.

    Times have changed and so have the voting public. I voted PLP twice and only for the candidate because they were above reproach when it came to concerns for the country and it’s peoples.

    With all this racist crap going on and having to decieve you and it’s all the whhite mans fault, I am over it.

    I am tired of your bleeding heart stories and propaganda and gradstanding Mrs. Furbert.

    So the UBP made some mistakes but the bulk of the matter is Government during their period did more to stabilise human reactions and racial tensions that your party will or have ever do.

    I recall all incidents from the 60’s through the 80’s and remember them well.

    John Sharpe, E.T.Richards, Dr. Saul, John Swan, David Gibbons, et al all deceived us and took us all back to England. These were uniters and so were many of your party.

    Look at the retoric verbal and otherwise that has been spewed by members of the House of Assembly over the past 10 years.

    Why are so many silent now, all the backbenchers and top civil servants?

    You Mrs. Furbert as usual use this medium as another avenue to thawart all efforts made by both parties and Independants.

    I love the part about fast Ferries. That just blew my find. A slow boat to China is better than a fast ferry, heck I just want to get there without attending a BIU meeting and crossing a picket line of disgruntaled Bus Drivers or guys leaning on 10 shovels on a ditch that ants could dig in a day.

    Simple solution. Each Parish gets two candidates. All parishes vote. Sorta like the US. But thats too simple. The popular vote and not the colour vote. This is getting lot’s of people down and mabe that is the ploy.

  151. Golfer,

    I cannot give you exact figures on the number of youth involved in the PLP, however I can say that I am a member of the executive of the PLP, and I can tell you that the Chairman of the Party is under 30. I am also a member of the Campaign Committee and several members of that committee are under 40.

    As far as the absentee ballot is concerned, I share your concern, I have 2 sons and both are living outside of Bermuda for different reasons, and personally, I would be happy if they both could vote in Bermuda elections, because they are both Bermudians. But the PLP didn’t invent the system of voting, they’re only trying to correct a flawed system. For your information, because Bermuda is still a colony, the members of the Boundaries Commission were appointed by the Governor and to my knowledge, they were not Bermudians.

    Cahow, I’m sorry that you are “tired of my bleeding heart stories and propaganda and grandstanding”, I can only relate my own personal experiences. If the truth is offensive to you, that’s your problem, not mine.

    I, too, “recall all incidents from the 60’s through the 80’s and remember them well, obviously your experiences were different from mine. By the way, I took the fast ferry to Dockyard on November 11th, and I had no problem. It got me to Dockyard in less than 30 minutes and back to Hamilton in less than 30 minutes, but I’ve never taken a slow boat to China.

  152. LaVerne

    It is a matter of opinion I suppose but your list is not impressive. This party has been in power for ten years. A list of moderate reforms is hardly anything to be proud. Especially when these reforms do not indicate serious leadership engagement with the big problems Bermuda faces. It is a list of conservative gestures that would make a conservative, content and prosperous country chuffed – a good indication that government was staying out of the way of the country’s progress: a country like Switzerland maybe. But for Bermuda it is moribund and negligent.

    But I like your tenacity. I really do. I stopped hoping for the PLP four years ago. There is a core of PLPers who believe and can think sensibly. They are not in power.

  153. One more thing:

    If the PLP is not divisive, what the **ll is this?

    The premier saying white people would not vote for the Obama. Is this leadership of the whole country? Insulting white people? White people wouldn’t vote for Obama because he’s black? Does he know any white people? Where did they find this guy? This is somehow unifing? Please. One the PLP’s fundamental supports is racial division. They need it to maintain wholeness and so from time to time they stir the pot. Why would anyone other than a black person trust them? Their own leader stands up and makes vile ill-considered and general insults of a 30% of the population. What on earth does the PLP stand for?

    http://www.royalgazette.com/siftology.royalgazette/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d8b93330030003&sectionId=60

  154. thats the race-card,not the Ex pat card,or as de Mau Maus call it, spear chuckin! LOL

    once IB has left , they’l be left with drug lords ruling,the sheep will be hiding behind gatted houses and fenced off yards

  155. If the list is considered exhaustive then it’s a very poor result. 120 months and only 28 accomplishments? That equates to one thing every 4 months (or 3 per year) and many of these are hardly examples of success or the result of critical thinking and well constructed legislative initiatives.

    1.Single seat constituencies to enable fair voting constituencies for the first time!

    Agreed. Now if only that reformist momentum can keep going and lead to parliamentarian reform, PATI and voters’ rights legislation!

    2. Fast ferries to aid traffic congestion!

    Agreed. Now let’s make it free for all.

    3. Increased tourism arrivals numbers!

    Umm, no … the facts prove otherwise.

    4. Decreased airfares allowing easier travel to Bermuda!

    Umm, no … the facts prove otherwise.

    5. Removal of death tax/inheritance tax on primary homestead!

    Excellent.

    6. Implementation of smoke ban in public places!

    Excellent.

    7. Increased pension benefits for seniors!
    8. Increased doctor’s visits for HIP clients!
    9. Increased prescription drug allowance for HIP clients!
    10. Elimination of vehicle licensing fee for seniors!

    Modest increases equate to a zero sum gain when taking a skyrocketing CPI into consideration.

    11. Establishment of African Heritage Diaspora trail!

    How has this materially benefited our tourism product (or Bermudians generally)?

    12. Establishment of North Hamilton Economic Empowerment zone!

    Endorsing a UBP sponsored initiative is great, but apart from some privately funded residential construction what has this really accomplished? What are the tangible benefits/results?

    13. Implementation of GPS software to aid the transportation industry!

    Umm, no … the facts prove otherwise.

    14. Establishment of the Bermuda Race Relations Initiative to discuss race in Bermuda

    Umm, no … the facts prove otherwise.

    15. Construction of the Sylvia Richardson care Facility, and the Rockaway Seniors Facility!

    Two down … how many more to go? Will they be over budget too (or even put out to tender)?

    16. Increased an on-line TCD to aid in licensing and registration!

    Great. Still can’t pay parking bills online and the new TCD centre (at a reported no-bid cost of $7 million and rising!) has certainly not improved wait times. Let’s also not forget the bungled introduction of the vehicle registration system (and the significant consulting contract the Chairman of the PLP received for same) which has already been proven as unworkable by the courts. $11 million in lost fees over 5 years? The trend of vehicle fines levied to date prove this an unrealistic statement.

    17. Implemented geared to income housing for BHC Clients!

    BHC? The same BHC that was treated as a piggy bank by various MPs?

    18. Introduced further education awards for mature students and couples, in addition to increasing further education awards across the board!

    Excellent, but writing a cheque is easy. How about the more pressing needs of our children already in the education system that is admittedly failing?

    19. Pledged millions of dollars for cricket and football to aid youth development!

    Great. How about completing the National Sports Centre and allocating funds to other sports where (by comparison) Bermudians have achieved far greater international success/recognition?

    20. Enacted bladed weapons legislation to combat violent crime!

    Too bad the police force is understaffed and underpaid to enable proper enforcement (unless you’re the Premier and have personal bodyguards)

    21. Constructed the reverse osmosis plant to aid in water usage!

    Umm … is it up to capacity yet?

    22.Opened the Bermuda Recycling plant for Tin, Aluminum, and Glass!

    Where do all those “recycled” materials go actually?

    23. Introduced the Environmental Awards Program!

    Great. Maybe the Government can win one for permanently preserving Southlands and other green belts in Bermuda?

    24. Allowed competition in the telecommunications industry allowing long distance rates to decrease!

    Allowed? I think what you meant to say was introduced an overly complicated and bureaucratic system that has restricted competition and hampered the roll out of new technology.

    25. Gave war vets an increase in benefits and for some the benefits they never got!

    How many years did this take again?

    26. Now give free education for Bermuda Regiment Solders at the Bermuda collage!

    Collage? Enough said.

    27. Free Bus rides for Bermuda Regiment Solders!
    28. Free Tuition for Bermuda College students!

    Cheque writing is easy.

    The bulk of these ‘accomplishments’ are really nothing more than policy changes that can be achieved with the stroke of a pen and/or the writing of a cheque. For a government that has almost doubled annual tax receipts they have so very little to show for it.

    Our education system is still broken (remember Dame Jennifer committed herself to making that priority number one in 1998 … a lot of good and 6 education ministers later that has done).

    The promised new hospital has yet to break ground.

    There have been no new hotels built in more than a generation.

    The police are understaffed, underequipped and underpaid. The Hamilton & St. George’s police stations are abysmal and the new courthouse is still a virtual hole in the ground.

    Unless you are a government minister (with an expense account, free car, parking spot, trophy suite seats for Beyonce, et al, preferred customs and immigration clearance, etc.) the PLP have done very little for the average Bermudian. Hopefully the electorate will realise this soon.

  156. “Collage”? That’s what has been presnted here by the author. It’s not funny Starman. We all make mispellings just as yourself and I. Mabe it’s an artistic approach, as I have said before.

    32/64 good presentaion and better wording that I would have used but that’s what differenciates each person. Basically, I would have said ‘wheres the beef’. Kudos for the research and presentation.

  157. 32n64w,

    Of the list is not exhaustive, read the title – “Some PLP Accomplishments Since 1998”. But you’re entitled to you opinion. You obviously think that they should have accomplished more. Obviously you have don’t understand that the government comes up with the ideas, and the civil servants put them in place. If you really thought critically you would be congratulating the PLP changes that have come about since 1998. Of course you realise that in addition to the “accomplishments” there have been numerous amendments to existing legislation. Bermuda Regiment solider have been had free education at Bermuda College. Have you been to “collage”, if you had, you would not that typographical errors are only just that, typographical errors.

    “Too bad the police force is understaffed and underpaid” – the government is not responsible for staffing and tell me how you think police officers should be paid.

    “The police are understaffed, underequipped and underpaid. The Hamilton & St. George’s police stations are abysmal and the new courthouse is still a virtual hole in the ground.” Again, the Government has nothing to do with staffing of police. The Hamilton Police station is being constructed and by the way, it is much more than a hole in the ground, and there are certain impediments to the reconstruction of the St. George’s Police Station that you are obviously not aware of.

    “Gave war vets an increase in benefits and for some the benefits they never got! How many years did this take again?” When was the last war that Bermudians were involved in? It certainly happened before 1998. You really should be applauding the PLP on this one. The other government did nothing about it.

    By the way, do you want a free ride on the bus and/or ferry? I personally don’t have a problem paying. I’m not yet a senior and school children ride free and I’m pretty certain that those who qualify for social assistance get free passes. Did I mention the part about seniors not having to pay for car licensing anymore?

    “BHC? The same BHC that was treated as a piggy bank by various MPs?” Present you facts, don’t go by hearsay.

    Civil Monster, give me some idea of the “big problems” that Bermuda faces, and please don’t include include the drug problem, unless of course you have a suggestion where the problem can be combatted.

  158. Ms. Furbert, you are a player. Insularity is a regrettable feature of all political parties, not just the PLP. You don’t seem to indulge in this convenient shelter from citizen’s questions. Thanks.

    Big Issues? Sadly they were around when the UBP was around. The circumstances have changed but the problems remain. BTW, when the PLP says its doing better than the UBP, this is hardly boasting. The UBP record was bad too.

    Issues

    Accountability: The government watch dog is actually persecuted for doing his job. If he is doing a bad job, then he can be charged. That hasn’t happened. Accusations fly. But none stick. The PLP has no reason to love the Royal Gazette but if it is going to charge them with liable they should be able to take them to court and prove it. If not, don’t accuse. It indicates dishonesty. The PLP should be accountable to an independent monitor. At the moment they aggressively work against it. This was a UBP problem too.

    Education

    If there was one issue that the PLP should have got right, it was this. They could have done nothing but fix education they would have clearly been superior to any government in the past. This was the PLP’s big issue. Solving it would have satisfied every aspect of their mandate. They did nothing.

    Housing

    This I can’t fault them on. This is an intractible problem. And they have done better here than the UBP. But unfortunately the problem persists. And the little they have done spawned a culture of corruption that people are still trying to work out.

    Race

    The PLP won the election in 1999. That changed the outlook for black bermudians more than anything probably since the creation of the PLP. But there it stopped. Education was the next step. That didn’t happen. After that what we needed was …

    Leadership

    Bermuda needs a model of leadership. Right now we have a guy who gets into terrible squabbles with people. He is a long way from being the leader that can unite the island. I think he is the product of a devise theme in the PLP. I know not everyone shares his preposterous views. But that doesn’t matter. He is the leader. The PLP is doing about as well as the UBP in the leadership category. Which is not good.

    Economy

    This relates back to education and race. Historically Bermuda does well when its cunning and works together. In the past, people cooperation was coerced. What we need is cooperative intelligence. We don’t have it from this party. We can’t be smart and divisive

    The PLP has to decide to be the party for everyone. They don’t like white people but they are going to have to live with them. hats just the way it is. It has to be accountable, and has to educate the children of the poor. The rest is just wind.

  159. Civil Monster,

    You are entitled to your opinion. There are some people who will agree with everything that you have said above, and there are those of who disagree.

  160. Increased tourism arrival numbers

    Laverne, we’ve been down this path before and I posted government’s own numbers. 9ps has provided the most recent.

    https://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/10/17/et-tu-brute/#comment-4664

    That response was based on 2nd quarter figures so the blame can’t be laid on the current meltdown – at that point there had been five consecutive quarters of declining visitor arrivals.

    ====================================
    From the RG:

    Air arrivals in the second quarter were the lowest they have been since 1980, while visitor spending during the three month period plummeted $18 million.

    It was also the fifth consecutive quarter to see a decline in resort hotel occupancy.

    The Department of Statistics released its second quarter bulletin, dealing with April, May and June figures yesterday. It stated:”Air arrivals during the second quarter of 2008 fell 10 percent compared to the same quarter last year.

    “The number visitors stood at 89,642 persons, representing the lowest second quarter visitor total since 1980.”

    Prior to 1980 statistics were compiled using a different method.

    The bulletin continued:

    “The decline can be partly attributed to the knock on effects of soaring oil prices on the global economy, as some major carriers have reduced their service to the Island to combat increased fuel costs.” “The decline in air arrivals translated into a similar fall in visitors staying at guest accommodations.

    “Resort hotels experienced a decline in occupancy for the fifth consecutive quarter, dropping 13 percent, or 6,077 fewer bookings than recorded in the second quarter 2007.

    “Similarly, visitors staying in small hotels, cottage colonies and clubs fell 19 percent. Visitors arriving by air spent an estimated $126 million during the second quarter of 2008, approximately $18.3 million less than the second quarter of 2007.

    “This 12.7 percent decrease in spending is a direct consequence of fewer air visitors.”

    The quarterly bulletin came on the heels of Premier Ewart Brown announcing “August 2008 air arrivals were on par with blockbuster August 2007 performance”.

    He noted that despite economic hardship in the USair arrivals for August dropped only one percent.

    In the Premier’s second quarter press conference held in July, which dealt with the same period as the Department of Statistics bulletin released today the Premier said:”In the face of tough academic times in the US, it has been difficult in this calender year to keep pace with our blockbuster performance of 2007.”

    At the time Dr. Brown said air arrivals from the US were down 14 percent, though number of visitors who flew in were not released. Nor was the drop in hotel occupancy or visitor spending released.

    The Royal Gazette no longer receives monthly breakdowns on arrivals and visitors’ spending patterns from the Department of Tourism.
    ======================================
    Cruise ships:- just 122 calls this year — forcing some Dockyard excursion operators into bankruptcy. Last year we had 151 cruise ship calls… the year before 181. And let’s not forget the cancellation of most calls for Hamilton. Not that it matters given the amount of construction on Front Street.
    =======================================
    Visitor spending:- earlier this year government’s own stats said:

    Hotel occupancy was also up, although there were 245 less beds in 2007 due to hotel closures — which is why hotel occupancy tax was $1 million lower in the 2007 financial year than in 2006.

    A little arithmetic is in order here. Hotel occupancy tax is calculated at 9%. That translates to an $11 million reduction in hotel fees. If the average room is $300 an night that translates to 137,000 fewer room nights (ouch). And if we simply double the room rate to estimate tourist expenditures that comes to a $22 million reduction in amounts spent locally year over year.

    =========================================

    So we’ve got fewer visitors, fewer hotel beds, and fewer cruise ships. Quite an accomplishment wouldn’t you say?

    Of course EFB’s current bio says something quite different:

    … In July of 2004 following a Cabinet shuffle, Dr. Brown assumed the single Portfolio of The Ministry of Tourism and Transport, when the two Ministries were combined. Determined to capitalize on the national synergy that the new Ministry presented, Premier Brown set a series of core goals for tourism’s recovery in Bermuda and since January of 2005 visitor arrivals have continued to increase such that Bermuda’s tourism industry is now revived …

    http://www.terrapinn.com/2008/hmla/speakerList.stm

  161. You obviously think that they should have accomplished more.

    Correct.

    Obviously you have don’t understand that the government comes up with the ideas, and the civil servants put them in place.

    Incorrect. I know exactly how the process works. Simply put, the PLP have squandered ten years of the electorates’ time and money. We just aren’t getting good value for our tax dollars.

    If you really thought critically you would be congratulating the PLP changes that have come about since 1998.

    I did. See those points above where I said “Excellent” and “Agreed”.

    Of course you realise that in addition to the “accomplishments” there have been numerous amendments to existing legislation.

    Great. Glad to know the strong legislative and economic foundation built by the UBP has needed only minor tweaking since the PLP have assumed the reins. Now, how about something new? PATI, voters’ rights, anti-corruption for starters?

    Bermuda Regiment solider have been had free education at Bermuda College. Have you been to “collage”, if you had, you would not that typographical errors are only just that, typographical errors.

    Yes. I’ve been to college and extended my studies beyond a university degree. I’ve also served in the Bermuda Regiment. I also take the time (when permitted) to read what I’ve written before posting same. But more importantly, I read what other posters have written before responding. That way I’m hopefully able to improve my understanding and knowledge of this beautiful island. Give it a try some time. You might learn something or even contemplate changing your mind about something.

    By the way ”you would not that typographical errors” Not “note”? 😉 … sorry, couldn’t resist.

    the government is not responsible for staffing and tell me how you think police officers should be paid.

    Can we put an end to this PLP misdirection once and for all please? The police force are underwritten by tax payer dollars which are allocated by the government. If you control the purse strings you control the results. Start taking responsibility and “man up” on this issue for a change.

    “The police are understaffed, underequipped and underpaid. The Hamilton & St. George’s police stations are abysmal and the new courthouse is still a virtual hole in the ground.” Again, the Government has nothing to do with staffing of police.

    Then why do the PLP hold press conferences announcing an increase in the police ranks, graduation ceremonies from the police force and a dedication to law and good order? … because they control the purse strings and are fiscally responsible for our public safety!

    This isn’t rocket science Mrs. Furbert. Stop trying to obfuscate the reality of the situation. The buck stops with the PLP. whether you like (or want to admit) it or not.

    The Hamilton Police station is being constructed and by the way, it is much more than a hole in the ground,

    Not much more … how long have we been waiting for this to be built again?

    … and there are certain impediments to the reconstruction of the St. George’s Police Station that you are obviously not aware of.

    Ah … the magical “you are obviously not aware of” defence. My mistake for relying on PLP press conferences and election platform promises as (what one would reasonably consider to be) reliable sources of information. Then again weren’t we promised “free” day care and public transportation almost year ago?

    When was the last war that Bermudians were involved in? It certainly happened before 1998.

    How is that even relevant? Are you telling me it takes a war to get things done these days? Geesh, the PLP has even more in common with the Republican Party than I ever thought!

    You really should be applauding the PLP on this one. The other government did nothing about it.

    Ok, golf clap for the better late than never result.

    By the way, do you want a free ride on the bus and/or ferry? I personally don’t have a problem paying. I’m not yet a senior and school children ride free and I’m pretty certain that those who qualify for social assistance get free passes.

    I just want the government to be truthful and honest and follow through on their promises. Is that too much to ask? And yeah, I think free public transportation would do wonders to improve our quality of life.

    Did I mention the part about seniors not having to pay for car licensing anymore?

    No. You also didn’t respond to the vast majority of my remarks presumably because the facts would get in your way.

    “BHC? The same BHC that was treated as a piggy bank by various MPs?” Present you facts, don’t go by hearsay.

    FACT: If our anti-corruption legislation in any way resembled those found in other modern democracies there would have been many more prosecutions.

    FACT: The PLP agreed with the prior fact and promised to modernise the legislation.

    FACT: Since making that promise they haven’t lifted finger.

  162. If we had similar protocols as are adopted elsewhere EB would have suffered anything from being disbarred from politics to being arrested for his admitted role in the pay to play debacle….

    Any views LF?

  163. LONDON (AFP) – The government launched the first phase of a controversial new identity card scheme Tuesday, forcing certain foreign nationals to start carrying the documents from later this week.

    The government has stuck with the programme, claiming it will help fight terrorism and illegal immigration, despite criticism from opposition parties and civil liberties groups who argue that ID cards threaten individual privacy.

    Those thought most likely to abuse the immigration system, individuals applying for marriage or student visas, will be the first to apply for the cards, which will be issued from later this week.

    Government ministers say that within three years, all new workers from outside the European Economic Area will have ID cards, with 90 percent coverage by 2014.

    “In time identity cards for foreign nationals will replace paper documents and give employers a safe and secure way of checking a migrant’s right to work and study in the UK,” Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said.

    Shami Chakrabarti, director of rights group Liberty, has said the plan to force non-EEA nationals to apply for the cards “in order to soften up the public is the most unpleasant type of politics.”

    The documents will feature the holder’s name and date of birth, their visa status and right to work, as well as a photograph, fingerprint record, and other biometric data.

    Workers in airports and other high-security jobs will have to carry them from next year.

    Anyone applying for a British passport from 2011 will be automatically added to a national identity database, but citizens will not be forced to obtain ID cards.

    In addition to civil liberties concerns, the ID card scheme has been particularly hurt by a string of losses by the government of sensitive data, most notably the loss of 25 million Britons’ personal information by a government agency last year.

    The losses prompted concerns about the ability of the authorities to manage vast databanks of private information.

    There have also been disputes over the cost of the plan.

    The Home Office says the scheme can be delivered for 4.74 billion pounds over 10 years, but some researchers say the figure could be much higher.

    Unlike its continental European neighbours, Britain has never had a mandatory ID card scheme other than during wartime, but the idea has gathered momentum since suicide bombings in London in July 2005 that left 56 dead.

  164. FYI – even the ‘soft’ introduction of ID cards for foreign nationals residing in the UK is one of the most unpopular, most derided policies introduced by the Labour Government since the decision to enter the Iraq war. Virtually no one outside of UK Government Ministers believes that any good will come of the cards, and the overwhelming sentiment within the UK is that the civil liberties implications are both real and worrying.

  165. While I am not in total disagreement of the introduction of the cards, as they are more durable and compact then the work permit itself, I don’t see why you would copy that article onto this site to support your argument. It dwells on the negatives and controversies surrounding the scheme more than the positives. It is somewhat contradictory to your supportive argument.

    But “obviosuly” I am not aware or “don’t something” that Her Majesty Furby knows. long live Laverne!!!!

  166. I guess it’s too much to expect that some people would be interested in reading how other countries are dealing with the same problems that Bermuda is having. I bet you any money, if one of you had posted the same artilce, the response would have been completely different. But, I don’t mind being in the minority on this blog.

  167. “But, I don’t mind being in the minority on this blog.”

    Then why so defensive?

    Besides that, what made you think that no one was interested in hearing how other countries “are dealing with the same problems that Bermuda is having”? You’ve posted an article which has absolutely nothing to do with ID cards being introduced into a country to stem illegal employment (that’s not why the Labour Government is trying to introduce the cards), so where’s the connection to Bermuda’s circumstances?

  168. “All in her head loki..all in her head”

    I will concede, in fairness, that unless you’re actually living in the UK and constantly seeing the debate that rolls onwards regarding ID cards, it’s easier to be taken in by the UK Government’s ever-changing and conflicting justifications as to why it wishes to introduce the cards. All in all, though, people should bear in mind that the proposed introduction of the cards is incredibly unpopular with the UK public.

  169. LaVerne, don’t worry about Loki. She’s just having a bad hair day. Not easy moving to the Motherland and trying to fit in.

    Yes you do have a voice but sometimes we all can be overbearing or it does not suit us.

    I reflect on your comments over the years and you are usually right but do have a tendency to go overboard and create friction.

    Actually, you would make a great MP because, well because. You have the fire within, let you contain it and spread the warmth.

  170. Have another drink, Rummy. You’re not quite as incoherent as usual for this time of day, so I’m assuming that you’ve not been quaffing with your typical enthusiasm………

  171. On Furbert: And you are frank and engaged.

    32N64W Says: Geesh, the PLP has even more in common with the Republican Party than I ever thought!

    Me: I find it the similarities interesting too. For example, for most of Bush Jr.’s reign his opposition of hopeless. The democrats didn’t win this last election by being a really effective alternative. Just like the UBP today.

  172. Not related to the subject, but I must respond with referance too your remarks. You Mr./Ms./Mrs. Loki seem to have a problem with this Rummy dood. Actually, I have been a follower of most of the local sites and he seems to be somewhat of a loner. But we are all differant and opine our views in certain ways.

    Just yesterday, I was viewing the Bermuda Sucks site and saw the back and forth with other members and himself. I can understand some of his logic when it comes to being denied access to the site. That seems a bit low. I garnished from it that it was more personal but have no clue if these individuals know each other and if they do that makes it even worse.

    As for “quaffing”, yes I do most days. I love a few cups of cofee in the morning and a few teas in the afternoon, and I do drink them with gusto.

    Not everyone can be classified as per your description. I suggest that you not corral evryone that may speak alike or refer simmilarly as one kettle of fish.

    Now back on subject. As I stated LaVerne, re-direct your energies and put your heart and soul into it. We need people that have the fortitude to be outspoken yet produce a relative calm in their presentation.

  173. “Not related to the subject, but I must respond with referance too your remarks. You Mr./Ms./Mrs. Loki seem to have a problem with this Rummy dood. Actually, I have been a follower of most of the local sites and he seems to be somewhat of a loner. But we are all differant and opine our views in certain ways.”

    You do realize that you’re not actually fooling anyone, right, Rummy? When you came to BIAW and started posting as ‘2008’, you didn’t fool anyone then, either, so don’t bother.

  174. I think your suffering from some insecurity when making comments like that.

    Did you go too Warwick Accademy with me? By the sound of your verbage, I don’t think so.

    Time to go too Miles and buy some cheese. I think your phobia with this guy is in need of a vacation.

    Enough from me about the accusations.

  175. Wow, what’ya know? Here’s the avatar assigned by this site to ‘Cahow’ and his IP address:

    https://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/11/14/initial-thoughts-on-the-ex-pat-card/#comment-5490

    And here’s the avatar assigned to someone who has posted as ‘Rummy’ and his IP address:

    https://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4245

    Pull the other one, Rummy, it’s got bells on………..

    Sorry for the diversion, fellow posters, but having banned this guy from the forum of which I’m a co-owner, I have no intention of letting him follow me around the Bermuda blogosphere and take pot-shots without calling him out and demonstrating precisely what he’s up to. Now, go and cyberstalk someone else, Rummy.

    Now, back to your scheduled programming………..

  176. Whoops…….I made the mistake of putting a couple of links into my last post, so it appears to have disappeared into Moderation Hell…..

  177. Ms Furbert –

    “9ps “You are a coward Laverne”. You know what I look like, where I work, who my sons are. Who’s the coward? Show me your face, tell me your name, and then we’ll see who is the coward. Can you imagine what I would say if I chose to use a name like “9ps”, or “Smoking Gun”, or “Uncle Elvis” or “Casual Observer” to post on this site, or any other site. As I’ve said a thousand times, I’ve never hidden behind anonymity and I can’t see myself doing it in the future. And by the way, don’t give me the response that my son does it. What does your mother do?”

    “Alsys, I was responding to 9ps who called me a coward. My point is that cowards don’t use their own names when posting or giving their opinion publicly.”

    Hmmmm…. Since you chose to bring me into the fray, suggesting I suppose that using a moniker online as an example of cowardice, let me state for the record that I do not say anything as ‘Casual Observer’ that I woudn’t post under my real name. In fact, there is a small number of posters who DO know my true identity. I choose to post under a pseudonym not because of ‘cowardice’, but because I wish to protect my privacy from the likes of yourself (who incidentally, I HAVE met before on a number of occassions) and other pokey Bermudians on a 22 sq mile rock in the middle of the Atlantic with nothing better to do than spend hours online trying to put the pieces together. Also, I do not want ‘who’ I am to detract from my opinions… or be viewed in the context of me as an individual.

  178. Casual Observer,

    I’m not at all surprised at your response to my response to 9ps calling me a coward. What I have come to realise some, if not all who blog on this site and other sites (basically the same people) have a problem with interlopers. How dare you, LaVerne Furbert, come into our blogsphere, post under your real name, and disagree with everything we as a group agree with? How dare you show you support for the PLP and its leaders all of time when we here in blogsphere spend most of our time criticising.

    Who are you talking about when you write about people with nothing better to do than spend hours online. Although I’ve only started posting recently, from what I’ve read on Bermuda Sucks, you also must be one of those people with nothing better to do than spend time online.

    So you’ve met me on a number of occasions, did I have a horn sticking from my head? Did I come across as an ogre? Or did I come across as a concerned Bermudian with my opinion, like you?

    As I said it is most unfortunate that my response to 9ps was misunderstood by you and others, but hey, that’s the space you’re in.

  179. Oh, and by the way, Casual Observer,the only poster on this site that I know for sure is Jonathan Starling. I don’t know any others and from what I read, I don’t think I want to know them.

  180. “How dare you show you support for the PLP and its leaders all of time when we here in blogsphere spend most of our time criticising.”

    Again how does calling all posters who disagree with you cyber KKK, slave masters, stating that we probably had something to do with the skinhead plot to assassinate Obama, making outrageous comments and telling bold faced lies to try and justify your argument over and over again help support the PLP?

    The devil has two horns by the way:)

  181. “As I said it is most unfortunate that my response to 9ps was misunderstood by you and others, but hey, that’s the space you’re in.”

    Funny how you and Dr. Brown make these ignorant and divisive statements and then when called out on state the above bullsh*t. If you were such a “strong” woman as you claim, then there would be no need to back pedal on all your nasty comments and stand by your intolerant. Blame everyone else, but in the end it is what you said and now it is on the internet for the rest of your sad and hate filled existence and for the whole world to see what type of person you really are.

    You don’t care about BDA or its people. You only care about the PLP plain and simple. PLP first and BDA a distant second.

    But Verny baby I had a good laugh at you the other night when you were cut off by Mr. Richardson. That was great and it shows that not just “young racist punks” like me are tired of hearing your endless tirade of hate and lies.

  182. I’m sorry but I have to step in here. Ms Furbert, you are taking CO’s irritation at being used as an example in a tiff “they” had nothing to do with as a complaint againt the PLP administration?? Really, that’s what you got from that? Obviously, you don’t read Sux too often or in any detail cause both CO and I (and Uncle Elvis to be truthful) come under quite a bit of criticism for defending the PLP many times.

    CO is asking that you not use their psuedonym to make an argument against someone you disagree with, much like you often ask that your son and his penchant for anonymous posting of outright racist crap to not be used against yourself. Do not ask for respect if you are planning on using the same small-minded crutches to your arguments that others use against yourself – simply, it makes you look rather silly and I’m sure you are not. (By the by, I know that you know who I am, so that is a moot point.)

    “I’m not at all surprised at your response to my response to 9ps calling me a coward. What I have come to realise some, if not all who blog on this site and other sites (basically the same people) have a problem with interlopers. How dare you, LaVerne Furbert, come into our blogsphere, post under your real name, and disagree with everything we as a group agree with? How dare you show you support for the PLP and its leaders all of time when we here in blogsphere spend most of our time criticising.”

    Co has no issue with “interlopers” (although how can you be an interloper on a PLP member moderated site, I’m not sure). They DO, as do I and Uncle Elvis, have a problem with being used to make a point in an long-standing argument between yourself and 9ps.

  183. 9ps, you’re quite correct in everything that you just said. Same goes for you Alsys, except for one thing, it may be a PLP member moderated site, but the majority of people that contribute are anti-PLP. I know I’ve said it before, but it really doesn’t make sense for to keep flogging a dead horse. Enjoy your blogging all!

  184. Why thank you Ms. Furbert! Keep up the “good” “work” yourself.

    By the way in response to your earlier post. I don’t have a clue as to where you work, only know one of your sons and know what you look like due to the youtube video posted in an earlier thread. You’re not that important to me as you would like to think.

    Also I don’t know the identity of any other poster here or any other BDA blogs so your conspiracy theory is like most of your rants/articles/posts, incorrect.

    Your biggest fan,
    9ps
    xoxoxoxo

  185. Ms Furbert –

    A couple points. One, never did I accuse you personally of being guilty of spending hours online TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO PEOPLE ARE. In fact, I had somebody else in mind when that comment was made, however if the shoe fits… *shrugs*

    Furthermore, as alsys has correctly pointed out, my issue is with YOUR continued problem with people posting anonymously and using my name to make a point against somebody who you disagree with, or the broader concept of posting anonymously.

    I have never made any statements about you coming across as an ogre. I think that you have a right to your opinion and it may surprise you, but if you did your research you would find that I have in the past defended online your right to express it.

    Now. You clearly don’t know with whome you are dealing given as Alsys pointed out, the knocks that a number of us have taken online for our defense of certain government tactics/actions/etc. In fact, you migh be well served to look back at the thread on BS where your video referencing Shawn Crockwell was in some way defended by myself… or at least understood.

    But none of that matters. Because I don’t tow the party line. That’s fine. It’s because I am a free-thinking individual who enjoys not being bound to any being other than myself. It’s a wonderful feeling to be able to express free thought and even *gasp* criticism of a group that i support, but do not always agree with. Very liberating. You should try it sometime.

  186. Oh… and for the record that one point that I agree with you on is that the local blogosphere is dominated by anti-PLPers. It’s unfortunate. And also one of the reasons why I feel the need to keep posting in spite of the various labels that it has earned me. And also one of the reasons why I detest you using my name in your little example.

  187. Laverne – you don’t have to be an anti PLPer to poke holes in your endless stream of contradictory hogwash just as you don’t have to be Jewish to find your son’s bigotry and antisemitic barbs a bit wearing.

    Love and Peace.

  188. CO & Ms Furbert

    I think you will find a common theme through many (but clearly not all) posts that most people are not anti-PLP per se, rather they are anti Ewart Brown and the members of his friends and family plan.

    While some people will never ever vote or support the PLP (just as some people will never ever support the UBP), I think that a large sector of the voting community just wants a fair, inclusive and transparent government that puts the interests of Bermuda as a whole first and foremost. Sounds simple doesn’t it!!

    Pitts Bay

  189. Pitts Bay –

    Let’s be real. The average PLP supporter is black Bermudian. This group is largely under-represented in the local blogosphere and as a result many of the posts and posters (who are majority white) are not supporters of the PLP. There are some who will be critical and look to find fault in virtually everything the Government does. That was the case even before Ewart Brown was appointed leader…

  190. I agree. Dr Brown has his faults but EVERY single PLP leader has been overwhelmly criticized by the blogosphere (check Limey’s archives or Politics.bm or even Sux). Is it a little column A? Sure, as I said he has his faults but it’s also a lot of column B, ie, no matter who leads the PLP, the majority of posters/criticizers are going to have an issue… which wasn’t the case under UBP. Yes, the web didn’t have such a big presence ten years ago but people still talked. Face it, this arena is not impartial and who really wants it to be? Have a bias (not an overwhelming one, mind) but the key is be truthful about it.

  191. Wow. That was an interesting detour for this thread.

    I’m afriad I was slacking in my moderating duties there I guess, been busy with schoolwork and worried Indian flatmates trying to contact family and friends.

    I think Alsys and CO have made some very good points there and I honestly don’t have too much to add. I agree with Alsys’s final point quite a bit though. I do think that quite a bit of the criticism of Dr. Brown, while it may or may not be valid, is not simply because he is Dr. Brown. All PLP leaders have been savaged online. I remember in the run up to the 2006 ADC alot of people online were savaging Mr. Scott and aaying how much better Dr. Brown would be, and almost the day after he was elected the mud started flying.

  192. Let’s be real. The average PLP supporter is black Bermudian. This group is largely under-represented in the local blogosphere and as a result many of the posts and posters (who are majority white) are not supporters of the PLP. There are some who will be critical and look to find fault in virtually everything the Government does. That was the case even before Ewart Brown was appointed leader…

    Just thought that needed to be said again.

    What I find interesting is that there seems to be no common ground, no place where we all come together to bash ideas around. This site is the closest to that, I think.

    The two forums are considered to be Paget East and Fairylands by the one side, while Progressive Minds and the PLP blog are considered to be Backatahn by the other side.
    This is part of the problem. There are a number of folks over at PM that I’d LOVE to get chatting with in an open forum, but it seems that there is a reticense to post anywhere else. Same goes on the other side.

    How do we fix that? How do we get a place (that won’t drive Jonny insane! *grin*) where we CAN have the knockdowndragouts and not have it collapse into a frenzy of namecalling and freaking out?
    How do we get more PLP supporters blogging in an open arena, where they can challenge outrageous posts by UBP supporters and vice verse?

    Isn’t that the best way to get to the truth? Or at least become friends, where you can have a dialogue without flipping the hell out at the first thing you disagree with?
    I know that, other than alsys, I’ve had knockdowndragouts with SEVERAL PLP supporters, with only a minimum of freaking out and, at the end of it, my mind was changed… and theirs, I think. And now? We have conversations. We find common ground.

    I guess I just want that for all of us.

  193. UE – Spot on. In a lot of ways I think the local blogosphere offers a tiny snippet of the real life social divisions that exist in our country in real life. It’s scary that as much as we talk, we’re largely talking AT one another with very little movement towards understanding or reaching common ground. It’s a virtual circle-jerk (sorry for the crass remark) with little representation from the other side.

    I have had a number of progressive conversations with individuals which has made me view things in a slightly different way. However at the same time, I have born the brunt of attacks due to my support of the present Government and policies (I must add that I will also criticize in equal measure if I don’t agree with something).

    But like Elvis said, it’d be nice to be able to truly put party politics aside and discuss what is best for our country without causing people to freak out on one another. The conversation on Bdasux labeling the PLP as the Labour Party and the UBP as the Conservative made me cringe because in fact, I think idealogically, they’re kissing cousins.

  194. Yep, as the resident PLP republican (and extremely proud of both sides) I find it hard to find that balance. I fully support the PLP as a party but I certainly have issues with certain things the government does. They aren’t interchangeable in my mind. I have learned so much more about both my self and my worldview it’s amazing. And makes me appreciate the PLP even more! I never understand why you must be a blind follower to be a “true supporter”. Or that if you criticize, you are automatically a hater or a UBPer (not that there is anything wrong with that either).

    Like y’all I want to be able discuss the government and how they affect our island without having to assign or take sides!

  195. sorry, cooking turkey dinner and a bit distracted (damn that Foster’s!)

    Meant * I have learned so much from posting and reading on the blogosphere, so much about myself and my worldview, that it’s amazing.*

  196. I agree with you Civil Monster, how great would it be to have a new party. Or do we even need a new party? How about people supporting their Independent constituents for a change. That would surely teach both sides a lesson and make them accountable for their actions!

  197. Sara, I am debating what you just said. I am not confused at the least. Re-read what you wrote about two parties/ys.

    Independants, if voted in are just that so that has nothing to do with two parties or one party.

    As for teaching both sides a lesson, they wrote the book and if they are not in power as a “Party” they will still be involved with the Independants.

    What we need is for members of the House to stand up. We have seen this from the Opposition. We have sen this from the current ruling party only to obtain/gain higher ground in their beliefs.

    We want to blame it all on them but it it not their fault.

    It’s ours for appointing members because of party and nnot really what they feel for their charge.

    Mp’s Mcp’s years ago could and did converse on all matters and they were really engaged in many matters.

    Today, as we all know times change but so what? Times have changed and will continue, so what? Communication and thoughts of welfare of us all is what it is about. But, it’s all about me and what I can get before the poops hits the fan.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s