Comments on: Race. Yes, Again… http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/ For Workers Power Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:13:36 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Pitts Bay http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4250 Pitts Bay Thu, 04 Sep 2008 00:12:00 +0000 http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/?p=265#comment-4250 The history of slavery around that time was not (I believe) the chattel slavery that was started towards the end of the 1600s. If my recollection is right, many of the "slaves" of that period (i.e. the 1500s) were essentially the same basis as the other lower level sailers. Perhaps he was sent ashore because the was braver than the rest of the crew!! Maybe he was more experienced at rowing and dealing with "foreign" people - who really knows the specifics at this point in time 400+ years later. I am not sure of the specifics of the events in question, but I have heard people say that there was an indiginous black population in Bermuda in 1609 when the Sea Venture wrecked (I have serious doubts about that), but if it is repeated enough times, people will believe it is true. Every book or historical account is going to be biased to the person writing it, and as such must be read in that way. Pitts Bay The history of slavery around that time was not (I believe) the chattel slavery that was started towards the end of the 1600s. If my recollection is right, many of the “slaves” of that period (i.e. the 1500s) were essentially the same basis as the other lower level sailers. Perhaps he was sent ashore because the was braver than the rest of the crew!! Maybe he was more experienced at rowing and dealing with “foreign” people – who really knows the specifics at this point in time 400+ years later.

I am not sure of the specifics of the events in question, but I have heard people say that there was an indiginous black population in Bermuda in 1609 when the Sea Venture wrecked (I have serious doubts about that), but if it is repeated enough times, people will believe it is true.

Every book or historical account is going to be biased to the person writing it, and as such must be read in that way.

Pitts Bay

]]> By: J Galt http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4248 J Galt Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:23:11 +0000 http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/?p=265#comment-4248 I'm not really sure what your point is either. Does it really matter what color the first man on the island was? I’m not really sure what your point is either.

Does it really matter what color the first man on the island was?

]]> By: Rummy http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4245 Rummy Wed, 03 Sep 2008 20:47:56 +0000 http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/?p=265#comment-4245 Does it really matter who was first off "the boat". ? Were all in the same one now......... Does it really matter who was first off “the boat”. ?

Were all in the same one now………

]]> By: Mike Taylor http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4243 Mike Taylor Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:53:41 +0000 http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/?p=265#comment-4243 I have never read that Venturilla (the first black person to set foot on Bermuda) was a slave. He also wasn't on the Sea Venture. I can find no documentation to show that a slave was the first off the Sea Venture or if there were any slaves on the Sea Venture at all. I always thought that Sir Thomas Gates had the credit of being first to shore off the Sea Ventuture, but that seems unlikely in reality. Can anyone shed some more light on this? I have never read that Venturilla (the first black person to set foot on Bermuda) was a slave. He also wasn’t on the Sea Venture. I can find no documentation to show that a slave was the first off the Sea Venture or if there were any slaves on the Sea Venture at all. I always thought that Sir Thomas Gates had the credit of being first to shore off the Sea Ventuture, but that seems unlikely in reality. Can anyone shed some more light on this?

]]> By: Renaissance Man http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4242 Renaissance Man Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:40:42 +0000 http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/?p=265#comment-4242 Apologies for the additional post, but there's a comprehensive summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bermuda Chard and Waters joined Carter in remaining behind on the island, 1609-1610. That was the start of permanent settlement of the island. We should strive to know our history. We don't need misinformation. Apologies for the additional post, but there’s a comprehensive summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bermuda

Chard and Waters joined Carter in remaining behind on the island, 1609-1610. That was the start of permanent settlement of the island.

We should strive to know our history. We don’t need misinformation.

]]> By: Renaissance Man http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4241 Renaissance Man Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:08:05 +0000 http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/?p=265#comment-4241 No, he's NOT from the original permanent settlers. He was several years earlier in 1603 and didn't stay. No-one did until two were left from the wreck of the Sea Venture in 1609 (Christopher Carter and one other whose name escapes me) after the survivors sailed on to Virginia. The remaining permanent settlers came on The Plough in 1612. I agree with your other points regarding his non-quest for freedom. IIRC, it's in both texts. Required reading for any Bermudian. No, he’s NOT from the original permanent settlers. He was several years earlier in 1603 and didn’t stay. No-one did until two were left from the wreck of the Sea Venture in 1609 (Christopher Carter and one other whose name escapes me) after the survivors sailed on to Virginia. The remaining permanent settlers came on The Plough in 1612.

I agree with your other points regarding his non-quest for freedom.

IIRC, it’s in both texts. Required reading for any Bermudian.

]]> By: Civil Monster http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4240 Civil Monster Tue, 02 Sep 2008 06:48:26 +0000 http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/?p=265#comment-4240 My point was that the first one off the boat of the original permanent settlers was a black man. I am damned if I can remember where I read it. And I am very far away from all my BDA history books. I would not be surprised if it was in "Chained to the Rock." But it might have been in The William Zuill history. I am certain I have it right because I was quite taken with it and went and rechecked it. The image to me, is quite beguiling. There are all the people in the boat. Behind them is the wreck of the sea venture. In front of them is this odd island. So they send this guy off to have a look so that if it dangerous they don't get hurt. And of course its just beautiful. He walks around and then he has to come back to the boat, full of people who boss him around, and hold him is low esteem, and thanklessly send him off on dangerous missions. There they are in a tippy little boat. "Well? Well? Whats it like?" For a moment maybe he thinks how he is obviously as brave and probably just as capable as them and of his moment of freedom, on the island. But he doesn't have choices. And the awful clumsy ill-considered human program continues. My point was that the first one off the boat of the original permanent settlers was a black man. I am damned if I can remember where I read it. And I am very far away from all my BDA history books. I would not be surprised if it was in “Chained to the Rock.” But it might have been in The William Zuill history. I am certain I have it right because I was quite taken with it and went and rechecked it. The image to me, is quite beguiling. There are all the people in the boat. Behind them is the wreck of the sea venture. In front of them is this odd island. So they send this guy off to have a look so that if it dangerous they don’t get hurt. And of course its just beautiful. He walks around and then he has to come back to the boat, full of people who boss him around, and hold him is low esteem, and thanklessly send him off on dangerous missions. There they are in a tippy little boat. “Well? Well? Whats it like?” For a moment maybe he thinks how he is obviously as brave and probably just as capable as them and of his moment of freedom, on the island. But he doesn’t have choices. And the awful clumsy ill-considered human program continues.

]]> By: Renaissance Man http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4238 Renaissance Man Mon, 01 Sep 2008 00:10:31 +0000 http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/?p=265#comment-4238 Apologies to Civil Monster, I was also off-base (should have checked before posting, but the memory is not what it used to be). Bermuda timeline can be found at http://www.bermuda-online.org/history.htm Apologies to Civil Monster, I was also off-base (should have checked before posting, but the memory is not what it used to be).

Bermuda timeline can be found at

http://www.bermuda-online.org/history.htm

]]> By: Renaissance Man http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4237 Renaissance Man Mon, 01 Sep 2008 00:05:39 +0000 http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/?p=265#comment-4237 Actually, since I was typing from memory, I was almost as off-base as Civil Monster. The actual reference can be found at http://www.bermuda-online.org/history.htm Should read up on it again myself. Actually, since I was typing from memory, I was almost as off-base as Civil Monster.

The actual reference can be found at http://www.bermuda-online.org/history.htm

Should read up on it again myself.

]]> By: Renaissance Man http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/race-yes-again/#comment-4236 Renaissance Man Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:43:15 +0000 http://jonnystar.wordpress.com/?p=265#comment-4236 Umm, Civil Monster is off base with the Sea Venture reference. FWIW, Venturilla, a SPANISH slave, was sent ashore to sent ashore from Juan de Bermudez' ship to search for fresh water 70 years before the wreck of the Sea Venture. So much for Bermuda History. Umm, Civil Monster is off base with the Sea Venture reference.

FWIW, Venturilla, a SPANISH slave, was sent ashore to sent ashore from Juan de Bermudez’ ship to search for fresh water 70 years before the wreck of the Sea Venture.

So much for Bermuda History.

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