What the…
Posted by J Starling on August 10, 2008
I gotta say I was shocked to hear about this stabbing. Eighteen. Only eighteen. I really do feel sorry for him and his loved ones.
I also feel sorry for his attackers. If the news spreading by word of mouth is anything to go by, the incident was over a gold chain. If his attackers felt it neccessary to murder him over a gold chain, I really do feel sorry for them.
Of all the things for our people to emulate from other countries, this thuggishness is not one we as a society should be tolerating. This isn’t New York, Baltimore, DC or LA. This isn’t London or Birmingham or Newcastle. But you wouldn’t know it sometimes when you hear about things like this. Over a chain.
You got to stop and wonder, has our society gotten so alienated that the cost of a teens life is a couple bills that would buy you a chain.
I’m sure, yeah, in the heat of the moment one says stupid stuff, one gets into a fight and all. I can understand that, to a degree. Can’t understand fighting over a chain. I can understand fighting to defend yourself, even over a chain. Thats more a matter of dignity – although I’m sure the victim would have given up the chain if confronted with death. I reckon that he, and not even his attacker expected that. Sometimes in the heat of the moment one does stupid stuff. I’m sure the knife was being carried by the person because it made him feel big. More secure. I’m always worried about people who feel the need to carry weapons because they insecure about something. Many may be too afraid to actually use it, but others, well, their insecurity leads them to use it when put in certain situations.
I hope the guy gets help. He’s gonna need it. Over a chain.
Not sure what the social response to all this will be. There will be some flurry of outcry, like this one. There may even be another rally against violence. There will be church sermons and press releases from the police and politicians about youth, crime, knives. There will be some religious fanatics calling for a return to Christian values. There may even be some politicians who, while not making this particular case into political football, will do so on a more general level.
There will be crying and alot of ‘what ifs…’ There will be a police crackdown.
But will there be any change to the system? Will there be a concerted challenge to the mass consumerism that teaches our youth to define themselves with irrelevant material junk? Will there be a challenge to the instant gratification ideology spread by this mass consumerism? Will there be a challenge to the ideology of ‘might is right’ of thugishness? Will there be a challenge to the insecurities that beset our youth and lead them to a perfect storm like this one?
No idea.
I apologise for the rant. I didn’t know the guy, I don’t think. But stuff like this really irritates me. Over a chain.
My condolences.
Tryangle said
You’re more sympathetic to those attackers than I could ever be. When you reach a certain age you have to be conscious of your decisions, and pulling out a weapon on somebody is truly hard to comprehend.
I don’t have hope that ordinary Bermudians’ lifestyles as regards mass consumerism and the issues that you mention above will change at all as a result of this incident. It’s saturated society. Outside influences (TV shows, magazines, etc.) will always have sway and I don’t know if there’s a way back.
Shahidah Abdur-Rahim said
I am deeply saddened by the loss of another young black Bermudian male. My son Aquil Richardson was gunned down December 2007. I’m not sure what the fix is for this recent senseless killing spree in Bermuda. I understand that a lot of youth are influenced by TV, Movies and Musical Lyrics. How Sad!!! There was a time when there was censorship board in place to keep undesirable articles of entertainment off the Island. What happened to that board? Society has really changed the minds of people. What we need is an “Island Shut Down” or a “Revolution” to make the ‘powers that be’ pay attention to the Island and not to themselves.
Thank you for this blog and for allowing me to express myself.
Shahidah Abdur-Rahim (another mother of a fallen soldier)
Mario said
Its not the ‘powers that be’ that need to pay attention. It starts at home, and individuals need to take responsibility for themselves and there fellow man. The revolution is within, and not placing blame or expecting someone else to pay attention to our young.
According to the paper, 75 people watch the events unfold. Is there no sense of community pride.
I am sorry for any loss that someone needs to endure pointlessly.
Shahidah Abdur-Rahim said
When I said the powers that be, I meant concerning the censorship of undesirable material entering the island and not the stopping of the violence. Just a thought, nevertheless.
Novella said
Yes, what a crying shame taht another young man has lost his life for foolishness. Parents need to step up and start parenting our children, this has to start from when they are babies. We have to stop thinking they are so cute when they are misbehaving and impose restrictions on them. We have to minitor the music, tv and other outside influences, making our children understand that we do not want to be their frinds but are appointd by God as their guardians.
There are so many victims when a tragedy like this happens.
My condolences go out to Mr. Hill’s family and friends.
VYP (Voice Of The Young People) said
No we do not need any type of censorship. Don’t try and blame music and TV shows for why these boys are out sitting on the wall selling drugs,jumping people,murdering people,carrying red flags pretending to be Bloods etc. Where are their parents when they are out doing all this? This is Bermuda everyone knows everyone. We all know who does what! We know what is happening! Bermudians know! You mean to tell me you don’t know if your son if selling drugs and is in a gang going around terrorizing people? You don’t know what your son is out doing? And if they are of legal age to do what they want you should have raised them better. We need parents to teach their own children right from wrong and to be PARENTS!
I listen to all types of “gangsta rap” and have for years. I’m not a thug and don’t try to be one either. I was raised in a two parent household and was disciplined. I couldn’t go out and do what I liked. I didn’t go out to parties at 12,13,14, and 15 years old and party unsupervised and come home when I wanted.
Bermuda is not the place it used to be. Every little thing we have to fight about. You get in an argument with someone or something petty and you have to call your whole family because one person said something you didn’t like. Where have Bermuda’s morals gone? Yes TV shows and music have influence on children but as parents you should have MORE influence over your child and control how much they see and hear. But parents aren’t doing that anymore. These young men have no respect for anyone! This is never going to stop. And the Bermuda government doesn’t have a clue. If it isn’t a money making thing like seat belts they don’t worry with it. We obviously have a problem that needs to be addressed. All we are doing is talking! All talk no action! Children under 16 should be off the streets after 9 unless accompanied by an adult. Plenty of places abroad have this curfew to keep violence down amongst young people. I know that this won’t completely change everything but it’s a start. Something needs to be done.
From what I understand this was a good young man trying to have fun that had a bright future ahead of him cut short. My condolences.
Bermuda's Child said
I wish that one day things will get better. That there will be no more killing, that there will be no more stealing, no more accidents… no more. But, I know that until that day comes, there will be alot more of things that I wish would not exist. Over the weekend, I lost my little cousin, and it kills me inside to know that it was over something so silly. I hope that the individuals who took Kellon from my family are dealt with. But, I also hope that they wake up and turn their lives around. No one dies in vain. There is always something to come out of it. I just hope that that saying is true for my little cousin.
God Bless
Mike said
Please remove my remarks at #3.
I should not have made them in response to this sensitive issue. Totally out of character.
Bouncer said
I work in the nightclub industry as a bouncer so I have seen a lot of things. I believe that a major part of these problems is because of a lack of response from the police. What I mean by a lack of response is that the police don’t work like they used to. There used to be a time where swearing at the police would get you arrested. There was a time when you wouldn’t be stupid enough to start a fight in front of the police because you would get arrested. There was a time when you wouldn’t even think of a lot of things because you would get arrested. Now a days, you can do all of those things and the police just wont do anything to you.
This summer alone I have seen the following happen and watched the police do nothing against it. I have seen numerous fights on Front Street where the police would break up the fight, after they fought for a while in front of them, and the police would just let them go. Five minutes later, the same fools would be fighting again, still in front of the police and nothing was done.
A guy parked in front of a stop light and got out of his car to go have a drink. He parked in the intersection and cars had to drive around him. Four Police cars drove past him and nobody gave him a ticket. I stopped a policeman in a car and asked him to ticket the guy so he wouldn’t do that again and I was told that they don’t carry tickets in the car.
A guy pulled a machete on the security at Splash one night. They chased him and he got away. They called the police, made a report, gave them the guys name and address and nothing was done. When the same guy came back another day, they chased him to have him arrested. He jumped into his car, tried to run over one guy, ran a red light and went to the police station to file assault charges on the security for kicking his car when he tried to run them over. When the police asked him why he was being chased, he told them it was because he pulled a machete on them! The same incident that the security filed a report about. Guess what the police did? They came to arrest the security guard! The guy who admitted to pulling a bladed weapon, in the police station, who had a report filed about the incident and both admitted and confirmed it was him, they let go!
Just last week I was in a bar. Security caught guy smoking weed in the bathroom and he was on his way out, joint in his mouth. He walked right past 3 police officers, no more than 3 feet away and nothing was done.
A few years ago the twins who go killed assaulted a tourist on Front St in front of Astwood Dickinson. The tourist came to us and we called the police 911. He wanted to press charges. They had just walked up to him, asked him if he had a cigarette, he said no so they beat him up. While he was with us and we were on the 911 call they walked to Flanagins area and hung out for a bit. We hung up and waited for the police to show as we were where Level is now. They never came. We sat there with the bleeding tourist and patched his wounds. The twins came back on the opposite side of the road so we called the police again to give them their location, still nobody! They got onto bikes in the bike park down the hill from the police station, we pleaded for anyone to just come outside and walk down the ½ block to arrest them! Nothing! They got on their bike and drove past the police station and still nothing was done.
So what the point of all of this? If you are a youngster and you see things like this happen in front of the police and nothing is done, WHAT DO YOU FEAR FROM THE POLICE? Absolutely nothing at all! If you fight and just get let go, you are not arrested and nothing ever goes on your permanent record, what do you fear? There is no boundary set there so you will cross it again and again until something or someone stops you and sets that boundary! If the police run from incidents and do nothing to stop the growing violence, then people don’t fear the boundaries that they should. If we as security, get jumped by a few guys and hurt someone, they will be quick to arrest us for doing their job for them. Imagine how bad the nightlife would be if there were not security and people had no boundaries? Clubs would be trashed, things would be stolen, people would be hurt and killed. Anarchy would rule.
I want to ask you all, how can we change anything when the people we empower and employ (Police) don’t want to stop anyone? What do we pay them for? Its not a case of where would it end, but when will they start to take responsibility for Bermuda and set those boundaries again?
9Ps said
I am of complete agreement with Bouncer. I also work on Front Street at nights (prob from the same establishment) and the police do not pose any threat to these idiots on the street. I have seen numerous times where they watch the fight until it ends and then intervene as if they are doing their job. Over cup match I argued witha friend of mine (who is a police officer) on this very same matter. THeir response was this, “we don’t get paid enough to get involved in fights and stuff.” I am dead serious as well, those were their exact words!!! I couldn’t believe what I had just heard and actually had to walk away. They spend more time every weekend checking the same liquor licence that they saw last week! These kids aren’t afraid of the police or the pitiful sentences that the courts hand down to the individual convicted of violent crimes. But God forbid someone gets caught with a spliff or two. Court, fines and stop list for such a horrendous offence as personal possession.
Secondly, how do you expect babies to raise babies. A kid in Bermuda is like the newest and must have fashion accessory of the season. “Got my Prada, D&G and baby, I am all set now!!”
Bermuda has lost its values., morals and sense of safety. I mean you can’t even go to the beach anymore with sh*t like this happening. It is not totally the Government’s or the BDA Police’s fault. It is the fault of Bermudian as whole.
9Ps said
“Bermudian society as a whole” – sorry
VYP (Voice Of The Young People) said
The police don’t care because over half of them aren’t even Bermudian! Their families don’t live here so why should they care? Or it could be the fact that they are imbeciles who couldn’t catch a cold? I’m sorry but it’s true.
Bouncer said
I agree with 9Ps! I have been told the same by Police when i asked them why don’t they arrest people! i can guarantee that I dont get paid half of what they do. We don’t get any protection in the way of body armor, pepper spray, mace and Asps(metal retractable clubs). We don’t even have handcuffs. We don’t have police support, but we have to do their job and police the people in our establishments. I know that they are trained to deal with incidents, I took the class that the Police offered to all bouncers a few years ago. They told us how to do their job and do it within the limits of the law. We do our best to follow it but it really gets you down when the police don’t arrest anyone that you turn over to them. They brought in foreign police to assist them because of the “we don’t get paid enough to get involved in fights and stuff” attitude. If the Police refuse to do their job than what can we do?
I have been a bouncer for many years and I have done my best to avoid fights and incidents, but they do happen. The times that things have resulted in violence between my team and trouble makers, we give them EVERY opportunity to be a man and walk away, but at the end of the day, we have to do our job for the safety of our patrons. We deal with bottles, knifes, groups of guys even being attacked by women, but we do our best to do our job. I wish we had the gear, training and protection that the Police have, but if we can do the same job with less, then they have no excuse to not do the same job with MORE!
If officers don’t want to do their job, fire them and get ones who will. If they want to work like office security guards, then go get a job in an office and call the real police when you have a problem! They need to change it back from the Police Service to the Police Force because they are doing the island no service at the moment! No service at all!
I’m sorry but this whole thing has me frustrated! I come from an old Police family and I believe in the police. I want to retire from bouncing, but if I don’t try to make a difference and show people the errors of their ways and to show them that there are boundaries, then who will?
One day I hope is the Police!
Mario said
Completely agree with all the comments related to the police. However I think the problem goes deeper than it appears.
Its not the fault of the cop on the beat right now who says they,’dont pay me enough’, because its probably true. You want to clean up the streets, give the police some teeth, new technology, strong management, community and govt support. Will toes be stepped on…sure, but eventually it will get better. Proven formula to better the communtity.
In response to why should officer care because he is not from here and not bermudian? Half the police force is expat, but the other half IS bermudian. What do that say about that half?
Bouncer said
Its their job to care! Dosent matter if they are xpat or local. We all worked jobs that we feel probably dont pay us enough, but we do them because its our job and we chose it. if we dont we get fired and replaced by someone who will do our job properly.
Heresiarch said
“another mother of a fallen soldier”??
Fallen soldier?!? What does that mean??
VYP (Voice Of The Young People) said
Well I don’t know about the other half! I’m not just blaming the police force I’m just mad about the whole situation and the state of Bermudas young people right now! You can’t even go anywhere without an incident happening.
LaVerne Furbert said
In my opinion Bermudians need to stop concentrating on the alleged acts of terrorism by Osama bin Laden and instead, start concentrating on ways to stop the terrorism that is taking place in front of our eyes daily here at home. Recently we read and heard of reports of a brutal attack of a 68 year-old tourist outside of the Fairmont Hamilton Princess Hotel. If I were a betting woman, I would bet my bottom dollar that once the perpetrators are found by the police, the community will learn that the terrorists involved in this attack are young, black males. I say this because for the past several months, or years for that matter, every time we read or hear of acts of terrorism in Bermuda, they are committed by young black males.
This most recent attack of terrorism brings to mind the attack of Clarkston “Hockie” Tankard by a group of young, black males about two years ago. He was terrorised by this group who drove in his taxi and then took him to a secluded spot where they beat him unmercifully. “Hockie”, as he is fondly known by family and friends, has not been the same since and it is heart-breaking for those of us who know him to see the result of that brutal attack. Ironically, the young Bermudian woman, Rhondelle Tankard who may have been a victim of the terrorist attack on the World Trade Centre is Hockie’s granddaughter.
Those of us who know “Hockie” know that he is man that made a great contribution to this country, in particular the Progressive Labour Party. I am certain that the now Minister of Finance, the Hon. C. Eugene Cox and the three Lister Members of Parliament will confess that had it not been for the dedication and hard work of Hockie, they would not be sitting in Parliament today. Although handicapped, Hockie walked the hills and dales of Sandy’s North and South for probably every election since party politics was introduced to Bermuda in 1968. Those of us close to the PLP know that Hockie’s jubilation on November 9, 1998 exceeded most. What is unfortunate is that Hockie can no longer enjoy the fruits of his labour since he was attacked by those terrorists which left him literally a shaken man.
I am certain that some will find it hard to compare the terror that was experienced on September 11, 2001 to the terror that Hockie experienced that fateful night that he picked up those three young men but I personally see little difference. In my opinion violence is violence, whether it is at the hands of disciples of Osama bin Laden or at the hands of three young Bermudian males. No doubt the fear experienced by Hockie on that evening was a great as the fear that was experienced by the passengers on the hijacked planes or the occupants of the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon. The one difference that I would admit to is that from all accounts, the terrorists of September 11, 2001 believed that what they were doing was for their God and their country, but what motive did the terrorists who attacked Hockie have? What was their God?
The terrorist attack on Clarkston Tankard was not unlike the attack on Warrington “Soup” Zuill, another “elderly” taxi driver. In the most recent attack, the victim was again an elderly gentleman. But we have read of terrorist attacks on young and old, but always the perpetuators fit the same description – young, black males between 18 and 30. But there is no public outcry for justice to be done as there has been for the September 11th terrorist attacks.
Although I did not agree with President’s Bush’s catchphrase “You are either with the terrorists or you’re with America”, I think we in Bermuda need to borrow that phrase and change the wording – “You are either with the terrorists or you’re with Bermuda”. Just as the international community is in a war against terrorism, we in Bermuda are also in a war. Incidentally, the war on drugs and the war against terrorism on our shores are one and the same.
Let’s fight terrorism here in Bermuda. Let’s get together as a community and find out why our young, black males are marching to Westgate instead of marching to Zion.
LaVerne Furbert said
I started to write a preamble to the above remarks. Those remarks were written in “My Opinion” column in October, 2001 (long before Dr. Brown became Premier, by the way). I also wrote a similar column from Toronto around the same time because while I was there, there were several shootings of young black males, by young black males, a trend which continues to this day. The same trend is happening in Jamaica, Antigua,America, etc. etc. – anywhere there is a black population, the same thing that is happening in Bermuda is happening there. I have my thoughts as to why, but I won’t share them at this moment.
My Two Cents said
While many of you have brought out many issues that I think contribute to the growing violence in Bermuda,(parents, lack of community,the governemnt, the police)I do not think that any one of these alone is to blame, but more like a combination of them has created this environment that fosters violence. Good self esteem, a sense of purpose, and a respect for human life, all seem to be missing from the younger generation today. Just how or where did it go I do not know, but I do know that unless we can combat all of the contributing factors then things will only get worse as time goes on. Action needs to be taken by the police, the government, parents, the school sysytem,and the community at large.
“The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)
VYP (Voice Of The Young People) said
We all know why.
Blood diamonds said
Testing one two three.
Blood diamonds said
another educated crip showing off with a chain like 50 cent. Stop fronting man.
Blood diamonds said
Pictures dont lie skool is for fools man.
Canuck in Bermuda said
Ms Furbert, any reason that you can share about why you can’t share your thoughts at the moment?
A. Mom said
I was going to ask the same question as Heresiarch-what is meant by ‘fallen soldier’? Soldier in what? Stop using terminology like that for a start.
I don’t agree with young girls having babies, but that’s a cop-out excuse for delinquent behaviour as well-they’re still capable of correcting their children-they should know right from wrong. I had a baby at 16-my son is 21 now and is an officer in law enforcement. He’s not out there being a wanna-be gangbanger bully. I say wannabe because that’s what they are. Drop these guys in REAL gang territory and they’ll be wetting their pants and crying for their mothers. They are cowards at heart-that’s why they have to travel in packs. They feed off each other and show off for each other-get them by themselves and it’s a different story.
Parents-no matter their age-need to set an example and discipline their kids-but NO. So many think their kids are cute and do no wrong. These kids want instant gratification-they don’t want to wait for anything. If their parents can’t afford to buy it for them, instead of going out and earning what they want they just take it from somebody else. Do the parents (mainly moms) question where this stuff comes from when their kids bring it home? In many cases ‘NO.’ They just keep quiet and condone it.
For these kids whose parents did not raise them right and who are now breaking the law, the answers from government are simple. Make prison so unbearable that no-one will want to go there. Better yet, work out something where we send our hardened criminals to prison in Jamaica. We pay thousands per year per prisoner anyway-we can pay probably less than that to the Jamaican government to ‘house’ them. The thought of being sent to a foreign country and to a tough jail where you can’t see your family as you like would be a good deterrent by itself. If not Jamaica, how about Cuba-I’m sure they’d be happy to take our money.
If we keep them here, take away the luxuries no matter how small. Feed prisoners bologna sandwiches morning, noon and night. Take away t.v. and the gym-they can get exercise out in the prison yard. All the gym is doing is making them buff when they get out so they’ll be stronger to attack people. Seriously reduce visitation-let them really realize that they are away from their loved ones and if they want to be with them then make sure you stay out of jail-that will help reduce the amounts of drugs getting in as well.
We need to bring in a force from overseas until we get this situation under control. We need to see a police presence. We need to stop encouraging the whole gang image. Pass an ordinance that makes it illegal to wear these bandannas in gang colours-I know this one would be hard to do but if other countries are able to ban baggy jeans worn low, then I’m sure we can do this. The curfew is a good idea-why are these kids allowed to run wild?
There’s tons of things that can be done-but we need to stop talking and take action. In the meanwhile, people need to stop blaming the government! The government didn’t raise our children-we did. Therefore we as parents need to be held accountable-nobody else!
Things To Do In Birmingham said
[...] What the… [...]
Bermygal 50 said
My sincere sympathy goes out to the family of Kellon Hill. Words can’t express how I feel . I do know that Bermuda has changed and that our youth have no fear of consequences. Lets come together and put a stop to the violence. I love my country and I don’t want to seee it fall apart. Come on Bermuda lets get a grip on things. As for the Police they need to be more active and less concerned about their personal upward mobility.
Tryangle said
A Mom, great commentary. I think it can indeed start from young where some kids are given everything they want and don’t learn the importance of patience and earning things.
Heresiarch said
“I have my thoughts as to why, but I won’t share them at this moment.”
I have thoughts and will share them, the reason you have a large number of young, black males marching to westgate, the culture of victimization is a large part of your group identity. The belief that to be black is to be a victim, it washes away the sins of self failure, you had three children out of wedlock to three different fathers, thats not your fault, its the “system”. You have to work three jobs to support those three children, not your fault blame it on Capitalism. You murder a man, rob, steal, attack the elderly, again not your fault blame it on mass consumerism, or slavery or anything else, because the beautiful thing about being a victim is its never your fault.
Mike said
Can we try to remember in this debate, that we are responsible for our own actions?
There may well be societal issues here, but in the final analysis it is the individual that makes the decision to beat up the taxi driver…to machette the guy on Front Street. No one else – just us as individuals.
I get sick and tired of an advert running on US TV that says….”drugs ruined my life”. No they did not – you ruined your life by taking drugs. Stop blaming others for your own poor decisions.
Islander said
We as Bermudians need to stop and take note as to what is going on in the world today. As someone said above that this is a problem that is not unique to Bermuda. Young men kill each other daily in most parts of the world. We Think that because we are here in Bermuda it shouldn’t happen and try to blame it on aything we possibly can because as a society we tend to think we’re better than the rest.
The young men who are involved in the violence in Bermuda today know exactly what they are doing. Everyone is fascinated with the Gangsta lifestyle and try to emulate it in some form. Look around and you can clearly see that the Gangsta life actually pays pretty good if your successful at it. Nice cars, girls, jewelry, money etc.Many of them seem better off than the working class. That’s what many of our males are aspiring to be. Sad but true.
It’s not much the government or police can do if you ask me. To blame the state of our jails is also not the issue. Someone mentioned that we should send them to Jamaica. Are you serious? The Jamaican jails aren’t much of a deterent to their criminals now is it. First we want to take their Police officers and then send our criminals to them to house. That goes to show our mentality that we think we are better than the rest. We need to deal with our own issues. Jamaica has their own problems. I’m sure they don’t want ours.
Duster said
Bouncer
I have an element of sympathy with your lambasting of the police but it’s such a superficial arguement in this thread. If you see ineffective policing as being the sole factor in the senseless murder of this young man then that’s a tad naive. Recent policing or lack thereof is undoubtedly a factor in the attitudes of some people, but I read recently somewhere, can’t remember where, that over policing young people on their bikes or whatever is also to blame for the hatred of the police by young people…damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
I can’t condone police watching a fight taking place, that’s nonsense of course, but I believe they are taught to only intervene when they can be impactful, i.e have weight of numbers/equipment etc. While that may appear namby pampy to a person in your choosen profession and is to a degree to me, whether we like it or, police are not paid to go wading into fights when they might lose; health and safety applies to them as much as it does to you and I. It’s not the old days any more, it’s not like when we grew up, young adults entering the workplace have..and are encouraged to have…these attitudes and I for one don’t see an issue with it. 4 officers watching 2 drunken idiots fighting is a joke, of course, I accept that. Swearing at an officer and not being arrested is a joke, of course and I’m not saying there is an excuse but there may be a reason ie.e the cells are full and sergeants have instructed that only the more serious of offences result in arrest, either way, behaviour such as swearing, parking like you describe etc should at the very least be addressed, even if arrest isn’t necessary or appropriate.
Simple things like the removal of height standards, while understandable as it was unfair to certain races, has had an impact too. how many police officers do you see out and about that are hardly visually intimidating??
The defensive tools that police have really are a last resort as I see it. Use an ASP on someone and it may result in broken bones or death, the spray they now carry can affect others in the vicinity so might not be the best option. Just because you only have your hands on skills and more importantly, your mouth to rely on doesn’t mean that having the other pieces of kit makes dealing with situations any easier, the contrary might be true. I’m not even going to go down the road of commenting on standards in your industry but I’m sure many have seen or experienced ‘bouncing’ in it’s most base form so as they say “People in glass houses..” etc.
Please also be aware that a great many offences are only arrestable when ‘found committing’ i.e. the officer him/herself sees it taking place…that is changing as the Police and Criminal Evidence Act comes in but is the way it’s been for many moons under Judges Rules…seems daft, I agree but go complain to the law makers.
I’m not having a go here, please don’t think that but licensed premises have a lot to answer for in terms of behaviour during the nights and I would hope that you would accept that. Getting people drunk and then tipping them out into the street doesn’t allow these premises and the management of them to wash their hands of some responsibility. People all make choices and in an ideal world we don’t need police or a Liquor Licensing Act but the fact remains that it’s illegal to allow drunk people in, never mind serve them and every single day of the week at any given time, establishments flout that law whilst fully aware of it as it’s a basic pillar on which the Act stands…..how’s about we start demanding the police do a better job on that front?? Security staff/bar staff (’agents’)getting charged for allowing drunk people in, patrons arrested, managers/owners charged, licenses objected to, businesses lost, jobs lost etc etc. I say all that to highlight my original premise and that is that to blame societal ills on your percieved lack of police efficacy is not a sustainable arguement in my view. It’s an important subject and you are undoubtedly correct that more and better policing can and should be done but to make the link to what this thread is about is somewhat superficial.
I also know that there are an embarrassment of numbers per capita of police officers employed here so in my view this is a moot point but the police have been, what, 40 down from established numbers for at least 3 years, maybe more? Is that placing a strain on those charged with working shifts on response duties? Is working in a building that was condemned 30 years ago and has proven mould issues in it affecting morale?? Is the Govt. refusing to abide by a ‘binding’ pay award that is 3 years out of date anyway having an affect on an officer’s decision to put his/her life at risk??
You do touch on courts though; carrying a pointed or bladed article in public carries with it a mandatory 3 year sentence…judges are now handing down 3 year suspended sentences…which was clearly not the spirit of the legislation…what message does that send?
Families of accused murderers, violent criminals gathering outside Magistrates Court to cheer them on, what message does that send?
It’s too convoluted and linked a series of factors that go into the gradual erosion of civil obedience to go into here and I don’t know enough about it to speak with authority I just wanted to share my thoughts with you and hope you take them in the spirit in which they are offered.
p.s. I used to be a security team leader in the licensed industry so I know where you’re coming from, I also know that having and actively pursuing a relationship with my local police was pivotal to my success and the safety of my team. Do they have anything like ‘Bar Safe’ schemes where security staff have direct contact with on duty officers and other establishments? What training is required of security staff here?
Shahidah Abdur-Rahim said
I have obviously joined the wrong group! Please take my comments off!! Yes, another mother of a ‘Fallen Soldier’. Only meant for some of us to understand.
Heresiarch said
“Only meant for some of us to understand”
What does that mean?
jonnystar said
I really don’t think it matters. I would rather focus on dealing with the causes of the problems than semantic games.
Heresiarch said
“I would rather focus on dealing with the causes of the problems than semantic games”
Ok how about this, every one wants to raid the barn, but no one wants to plant the corn. Black culture and identity trades on victimization, instead of trying to create wealth, you try to take from those that have it.
Shahidah Abdur-Rahim said
I’m sorry Jonathan but I to have to comment further. Some mothers call their sons soldiers. My son died and I choose to call him a fallen soldier. The term comes from the soldiers at war in Iraq and Afghanistan. So what if we choose to adopt the term for our lost sons? My son was in the army cadets and therefore was a soldier in my eyes.
Jonathan, please take me off this page if you can.
Thanks,
Shahidah
32n64w said
The term comes from the soldiers at war in Iraq and Afghanistan
Ms. Adbur-Rahim,
My sincerest condolences for your loss. No child should ever predecease their parents.
Not to sound antagonistic or heartless, but can you please clarify the comparison to soldiers at war? I’m trying to understand how those battlegrounds reconcile with Bermuda. Also, which side are you referring to in those campaigns? The U.S. or others?
Thank you in advance for your response.
shawn C. said
I think Senator Marc Bean’s article in today’s RG rings very true. This younger generation is morally lost and parents have sold their souls to give them everything material. These material things are to overcompensate for parents not being in the home. Also some parents want to be their kids’ friends. You cannot be their friend. You must draw the line of distinction, and if you are a proper parent, then in time as the child matures, the friendship will naturally evolve.
But there are too many parents that turn a blind eye to what their kids are doing, and act like their child is a saint, when they should know better. Jet skis, new appliances, fancy cars etc, but no job? or no steady job? C’mon now.
We need to hold kids accountable for their actions from day 1.
Blood diamonds said
Marc Bean sounds like Quinton Edness man. Just the other day crying cas Brown didnt give a senate seat now he has it he is dogging the youth. The government has a billion dollar budget to fix the GANG WARS. Parents are struggling to pays bills. Youth are always innocent man. This is a manslaughter case nobody was found shot in the face or with bullet holes in the temple. Thats real gangsterism. Dnt dress like gangster if u aint. dont wear chains if u dont slang or bang. Southside get out of the game. Nobody innocent dies.
Blood diamonds said
Most of the this generation are 3 generation gangster born into the game visited their fathers even grandfathers in jail. Born killers man. The government needs spend big money buy back weapons hand out free housing build a ghetto projects. Instead of corruption kickbacks hotels and golf. The Premeir needs to stop empowering himself take off his shirt and hang with these bangers and make peace. He has enough bodyguards but they need to carry long arms.
Shahidah Abdur-Rahim said
No wonder the youth can’t do any better! Look at the bullshit comments some of you are making! Why not stick to the seriousness of what has happened last weekend instead of picking at every little comment someone makes? What frigging difference does it make, what a soldier is? What the hell is the page about anyway? I thought it would have been useful for me to express a few opinions of mines, not to be critisized by other participants. Why is calling our dead young people ‘fallen soldiers’ such a big problem to some of you? Get over it! You are nothing but Haters! Oh, Collie Buddz uses that term….What does that mean i wonder?
Shaking My Head said
Why get so irritated over a simple question, just explain and be done with it move on. Now getting back to the matter at hand. We have all these young men/boys trying to live the life get easy money or material things without having to work hard. We have parents making excuses for their sons and daughters when they do something wrong. You let your children leave the home with their pants hanging past their butt crack, scarfs hanging from their clothes, just looking like thugs what do you expect they are going around the corner to play marbles.
I may hit a big nerve here but I just have to say it, as they say truth hurts. But Mr. Richardson was one of the biggest participants in the durg trade/violence etc. etc. on this island. You live by the sword you die by the sword. I do not condone murder/violence in anyway but violence begets violence, you do evil things, evil is sure to follow.
Kellon Hill was innocent, didn’t sell drugs, hang in a gang/crew/massive, that any of us are aware of. He was a young black Bermudian male who was going away to school to better himself and get ahead but these small minded wanna be thugs took that away from him. These small minded wanna be thugs are just like the ones from around Camp Hill area who emulated Mr. Richardson. If you are a parent teach your children right from wrong. Don’t allow them to walk over you, hang out on the walls etc. etc. no matter how much they may hate you for it at the time they will thank you for it later on in life. If you let them do what they want then all you can do is hope that they make it out alive. Parents stop trying to be your childrens friends and actually parent them.
Heresiarch said
“..I may hit a big nerve here but I just have to say it, as they say truth hurts. But Mr. Richardson was one of the biggest participants in the durg trade/violence etc. etc. on this island….”
Shahidah Abdur-Rahim is that true? If so did you know about it?
Shahidah Abdur-Rahim said
This was not my intention to be a part of this topic to be attacked and I have no comment on your personal attacks. You seem to have all the answers.
Joanne said
This is my first time reading this blog. I am really surprised at what I am reading. How can you first of all blame parents for grown children’s actions??? To be totally disrespectful to Shahidah Abdur-Rahim in how she chooses to remember her son is disgusting. Let us remember that parents have lost their children to MURDER and nobody deserves that. How sad that you would attempt to tarnish her fond memories of her son by asking her to explain why she chooses to consider her son a “fallen soldier”. To go as far as to ask her if she knew that her son was a drug participant, my question is what difference does that make at this time? HE HAS LOST HIS LIFE for heaven’s sake. My feeling was that she cared to share her emotions of having experienced the heartbreak first hand. Here you all are adding to her grief.. How heartless. It doesn’t matter what lifestyle you lead or what you do or plan to do with your life, as you all can see, it doesn’t matter. A LIFE IS A LIFE IS A LIFE!! I guess that none of you have been impacted as she has and I hope that you never do. I think that you opinions would then be a little more sensitive. My sincere thoughts and prayers go out to all that have lost lives because of violence. Shahidah Abdur-Rahim, keep your head up and ignore all of the narrow minded comments made here. I do not know you personally but to be disrespected in this manner is beyond belief. I will not visit this website again because I thought that folks would have logical and meaning conversations. I was wrong……..
Heresiarch said
“How can you first of all blame parents for grown children’s actions???”
grown children, would be adults, but if your children grow up to be criminals then yes as a parent you more than likely fucked up somewhere.
“It doesn’t matter what lifestyle you lead or what you do or plan to do with your life”
Try telling that to the Hills, from all accounts Kellon Hill was leading a productive lifestyle and five teens who where living a “gangsta” lifestyle decided to snuff him out over a chain??
But if you think “a life is a life” you really haven’t put any thought into your post.
“How sad that you would attempt to tarnish her fond memories of her son by asking her to explain why she chooses to consider her son a “fallen soldier”. ”
No one is trying to tarnish anyones memory I could not imagine the pain that Shahidah Abdur-Rahim has felt at the loss her son.
With that said I do feel that call her son a fallen soldier is wrong, he was not a soldier in a war, it almost glorifies being shot and killed, and that is something I feel we shouldn’t do. I am having trouble finding the words to explain why I find it wrong anyone else willing to try without seeming heartless?
jonnystar said
Hersiach,
I think it would be better if you speak in a more generalised tone. Alot of what you have written on this thread can be construed as close to a personal attack on Sister Shahidah. I don’t think that is your intention; I think you instead are discussing what you feel is one of the many complex factors that contribute to our current social problems. But you must understand how some of your comments will be interpreted, and I ask that you practice more sensitivity in this area please.
It would reduce whatever anxiety you may be unintentionally producing, while at the same time moving the discussion forward to unravelling some of the complex issues involved in youth violence and crime.
Thankyou.
Angel said
I wasn’t sure if I should even attempt to touch this topic as emotions over the past few days have taken its toll on the entire community. Perhaps some of the comments made have been a little insensitive. This ladies loss of her son has to painful for her as it would be for any mother. My prayers are with you Shahidah Abdur-Rahim to give you the strength to carry on each day with peace in your heart and loving memories.
Having said that I believe I see the other side as well. I believe that the community is in such shock over the events that everyone is seeking some sort of answer as to how things have gotten this bad. Where did it all go wrong? We cannot make choices or even take responsibility for our adult children, but we do have control over them while they are still young. Have we lost control of our children while they are young and not taught them to be productive law abiding citizens? Have we given them the okay to terrorize a community by turning a blind eye to their activities as young children and young adults? If so, how did we lose control and why?
Looking at the age of these children in this tragedy and one has to wonder where their parents are in their lives. Are they around at all and do they know what their children are involved in? And if they are aware what were they doing to deter it. As a mother of a teenage boy myself I find it hard to believe that a 14, 15, 16 year old can be out terrorizing the community and no one knows. I don’t know where my 17 year old is every single minute of the day but I make it my business to know as much about his friends and activities as I can.
Having said all this I believe the time has come where we have to take a step back and look at ourselves as parents. I believe we need to stop blaming everyone else, stop blaming the people that aren’t in their lives and start looking at the examples they are receiving from the people who are in their lives. We have bought these children into the world and they are our responsibility. I agree with Col. Burch 100% parents do need to be held accountable for their children’s actions. And maybe if parents were held legally accountable perhaps the “blind eye” issue may decrease.
Tia said
I’m sorry Jon but I have to speak up here. Heresiach, look I get what you are saying and I agree to a certin extent. Violence does indeed begat violence but in death we are all equals. Murder is most offensive and to “attack” a mother because of how you view her son is wrong, end of story. Yes, I agree that you are partially responsible for your children’s actions but you attacking Ms. Shadidah solves nothing. Or does it? Do you think that this semantics battle solves anything? We can’t change the past but we can work towards changing the future – which is what Ms Shadidah is trying to do by reaching out like this… and you think rebuffing her and deriding her is a good idea??
shawn C. said
Hi all,
I just want to say that i agree that the death of anyone is sad and I offer all condolences to the families or any and everyone that has had their lives taken.
In the same breath, I do feel that calling some of the victims “fallen soldiers” is inappropriate. It is more than semantics. It invokes a hero status or martyrdom of these victims, and while they should be remembered and missed by their families etc, I think by calling them “fallen soldiers” it glorifies their deaths, and i think in this time that is the last thing we should want to do.
Shahidah Abdur-Rahim said
It seems to upset some people to call fallen victims of serious crimes ‘fallen soldiers’. I am sorry that it offends those who don’t like it. The young people on the island find comfort in calling these victims ‘fallen soldiers’. Anyone can be considered a ’soldier’ if they are fighting a war within themselves or a physically war. A sick child fighting an illness is often called a soldier for being brave enough to whithstand their pain and their treatment. My son’s daughter is suffering from Cystic Fibrosis and Diabetes and she is a little soldier to have to endure the pain and suffering it brings. There is a song (I’m not sure who sings it) that goes like this….This is for my fallen soldiers, we miss you…………… I assumed that it was meant for the soldiers fighting war and losing their lives. On the US news there are clips of ‘Fallen Soldiers’ and how they lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. If I am wrong for assuming that that is where the term came from, I apologize. I belong to a group on Facebook called ‘Falling Soldiers RIP) I have gotten use to the term ‘Fallen Soldiers’. I don’t think it is detremental to society in any way, shape or form. It is not a way to emulate my son. I love my son for the person he was to myself and to others. He may not have been a high achiever, but he was a living soul and no one had the right to take his life. Someone wrote on this page basically saying that my son deserved what he got. Claiming that if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. I am a peaceful person and I really don’t like it when people come into my space and cause me to become soemthing I am not. I love and respect those that respect me. I thank those who have been supportive to me on this page. This is my last message and I will not be going on here anymore. You can write what you like. I am a strong woman and I can take anything coming my way. Yes I was hurt at the implications. I got over it in less than an hour. My God is a Just and Merciful God.
Peace
Heresiarch said
“We can’t change the past but we can work towards changing the future – which is what Ms Shadidah is trying to do by reaching out like this… and you think rebuffing her and deriding her is a good idea??”
I’m not rebuffing or deriding her. I agree that we can’t change the past but we can learn from it.
“but in death we are all equals. Murder is most offensive and to “attack” a mother because of how you view her son is wrong, end of story.”
In death we are all equal, but in life we are not. I did not attack anyone, I don’t have a view of Ms Shadidah’s son, I don’t know if he was a criminal or not, thats why I asked the question after “Shaking my Head” posted what he did.
When I made the statment “if your children grow up to be criminals then yes as a parent you more than likely fucked up somewhere.”
I was speaking about all criminals but specfically I was talking about the parents of the person or persons who murdered Ms Shadidah’s son, and Mr Hill.
Brother Jon’s point is taken though but any general statements made on this thread by myself might be mis understood.
Still think it sends the wrong message to call the victims fallen soldiers.
Rummy said
“The young people on this island find comfort in calling these victims…”fallen soldiers”.
Therein lies another cirmustance of a cultrual failure or acceptance thereof.
Lives are lost everyday through violence and nature and will continue. Steps can be taken to avoid and it has been proven here in Bermuda. Per capita, things are pretty good but it’s that sudden loss that does not happen regularly that sends a jolt to the community.
My neighbour tells me it’s a cultrual thing to say ‘fallen soldier’ and I agree. The cultrual part. Time to shake that off and move on, then again thats another move that is hard to shed.
I will not get into stats about b & w but the food for thought is there and we need to all sit and partake.
You have a great day and one day your Sons passing will be taken care of by your God.
Your community work is appreciated and your rewards are today.
Rummy.
Martin said
Well – it seems to me that one lesson that comes from this exchange, is that you cannot mix the thoughts of those who are at this point in time emotional, with those who are not directly involved, but have a point of view and – I think in their own way – want to to bring about an improvement in society for the good of all.
How do you think rationally when you are upset; I don’t think you do. We have all been there and we know what that is like.
There is a time for outpourings of grief, and a time for rectifying the problems. They do not go together imho.
Tia said
The fallen soldiers comment is still just semsntics to me. I call my daughter my little angel. Does this mean I think she has wings and lives in heaven? Of course not. It means certain to me and to me alone. (Mainly that she is so peaceful when sleeping and much less so when awake – thusly the angel quip is sarcastic usually). What does it matter what Ms Shadidah calls her son? It’s her son, she can call him the messiah for all it really matters. We need to focus less on getting at each other and more at realizing that if people are willing to reach out in amanner such as posting on her and other sites, then they are willing and trying to effect change.
Focus on the good.
Tia said
The fallen soldiers comment is still just semantics to me. I call my daughter my little angel. Does this mean I think she has wings and lives in heaven? Of course not. It means certain things to me and to me alone. (Mainly that she is so peaceful when sleeping and much less so when awake – thusly the angel quip is sarcastic usually). What does it matter what Ms Shadidah calls her son? It’s her son, she can call him the messiah for all it really matters. We need to focus less on getting at each other and more at realizing that if people are willing to reach out in a manner such as posting on here and other sites, then they are willing and trying to effect change.
Focus on the good.
*Fixed typos.
Rummy said
Calling your daughter an Angel and your lost Son a fallen Soldier are two differant things. Nothing to do with semantics which you just learned via the Internet.
As your parents about an Angel and a fallen soldier.
In Bermuda, a fallen soldier is someone that passes out and falls on his butt at the Peppercorn Ceremony.
We’ve not had one since World War II, Vietnam, Iraq…..Sir. Richard Sharples, Duckett, et al………….
Tia said
Actually, if you bothered to read Ms Shadidah’s explanation instead of putting your own connotations on her words, you’d see that she said the same thing. You see a fallen soldier as one thing and she sees it as another. Sorry, but I’m gonna go with the explanation from the person using the phrase instead of people who choose to spend copious posts asking for a definition for something that really has nothing to do with this situation.
Tia said
I mean, she said her son went to regiment which makes her chosen phrase technically correct. What emotions she puts behind the phrase is a different story altogether and honestly, is none of our business.
Rummy said
And thats why I made my comments. As per your replies, it’s a cultrual thing. Deal with it. You can’t, thats why you defend and will never move on.
Tia said
Cultural? Huh? What exactly is cultural? Regiment? Soldiers?
Joanne said
I cannot believe that this conversation is still going on. Rummy, you need to move on and face the real issues. Our children are in trouble and we need to find a solution to fix it. If it’s not our children, it will be our grandchildren. We must stop this madness. Why do you find it necessary to pick at every comment and expect an explaination??? Whatever term YOU choose to use to describe something/someone is your business. Ängel”or “fallen soldier”is all in the eyes of the user of the term and not for you or I to be judgemental and require an explaination. It would be better in my opinion to offer supportive advise in this forum. Your personal comments to Shahidah and Tia are trival. I would love to see more meaningful and comments of a larger magnitude coming from you so that we can save our “Soldiers” be they male or female, in the regiment or not. Having said that, since you require an explaination as to why people are sometimes called soldiers, just think of it this way, a soldier is a child of a higher being… That’s all of us. NOW CAN WE MOVE ON??????
Rummy said
Wow……A higher being? That sure makes me feel better and you not wanting to discuss the “soldier” part. More spin…………..
Heresiarch said
“I mean, she said her son went to regiment which makes her chosen phrase technically correct.”
No she said her son was a cadet, in which case she should call him a fallen cadet.
That’s not the point I’m trying to make. I wouldn’t really have a problem with her calling him a fallen angel, son etc… its the soldier.
If he was a soldier, is his killer a soldier? Look using the term fallen soldier to describe victims of violent crimes, is wrong, was he fighting a war? If he’s a soldier then I guess all of our youngsters are soldiers, and what do soldiers do? They fight, They kill.
Ok last time to try an explain it.
soldiers fight and killed in war. These young men where not in a war, they where victims. Victims of violent crime, and thier killers are not soldiers they are criminals, and as such they should be punished.
Yes its an extremely painful thing that she has had to go through, she was in favor of censorship, so here’s a suggestion, censor the “fallen soldier”
It glamorizes a shameful act and a shameful way of life.
Teach the youth don’t polish up what happened, give them the reality, it may prevent another mother having to go through what you did.
Martin said
What really concerns me about this situation and others like it is the worry that the thugs see nothing wrong, nothing embarrassing, nothing their parents should get upset about etc,in this whole thing.
It’s also as if life will follow a pre-determined/acceptable pattern of crime = prison = crime = prison, and that’s alright. A kind of…”what are you worrying about – it’s the way we live and it’s fine by me”.
Now if that is not the case, then as a society we have a chance of pulling this lot round. A slim chance,one requiring commitment from all, but a chance nonetheless.
If, however, it is the case – then I think we are in deep trouble.
Piglet said
The term ‘Soldier’ and by extension ‘Fallen Soldier’ is used in gangs and is used to describe members of a gang and members of the gang who are killed.
You can research this if you wish online or listen to any Gangsta rap…and you will get the picture…
It is used within the Bermuda environment.
I am not suggesting that is why Shahidah Abdur-Rahim used that term …but it certianly has other meanings to others……
Piglet
Rummy said
I think we are all aware of that Mr. Piglett.
It’s whether it is accepted and/or another crutch to lean on which seems to be the case with the cultrual background of most of the victims in the past 40 years.
Piglet said
Rums,
You and others may be aware of this point.
But in fairness if you read the comments – it is clear that some posters including Shahidah Abdur-Rahim may not have been aware of the alternative meaning.
Piglet
Angel said
Do any of you feel the time has come for parents to be legally held responsible for their childrens criminal activities? I’m not talking about young adults over the age of 18.
Heresiarch said
Yes!!
VYP (Voice Of The Young People) said
No they are all well aware of what it (fallen soldier) means.
The Truth Hurts said
So many mothers in Bermuda are in denial about what their sons (and sometimes daughters!) are up to. They think their sons are all sweet and innocent when in reality they are not. I know it must hurt to lose a child, but some people just attract trouble to themselves. The person who said ‘live by the sword, die by the sword’ is so right. You go around carrying guns, gangbanging, beating up people, etc. and sooner or later someone will take you out.
The term ‘fallen soldier’ is foolish and unnecessary. A fallen soldier is just that-a real soldier who falls in action-not some person who gets shot and killed on the street. Why call someone that when that is obviously what they are not? I don’t consider it ‘hating’ to question that. It’s thuggish, street talk that no sensible, mature individual would use. It makes people question the mother’s mentality to use terminology like that and question why the son was the way he was.
As to parents not being responsible for their grown childrens’ actions-well to a great degree the parents are responsible. A lot of children rebel to some degree but if they are given a strong foundation, proper upbringing, etc. their conscience will tell that that what they are doing is wrong. We have so many evil deviants walking around Bermuda who want to kill you if you just step on their toe by mistake.
They’re just evil and soul-less and it makes you wonder how they ended up like that. Of course their parents (mainly mothers) think ‘not my angel-he’s a good boy’-these parents have to get their heads out of their asses and take a good, long, honest look at what they have produced and ask themselves how they ended up like that. Straighten those boys/men out or don’t expect the rest of us to feel sorry for you when you drop your sons in a six-foot hole.